Hey there, i got a few questions:)
- i've been put off trying revivogen by comments about its smell and oilyness, but you're report seems different; have you noticed it getting all over the place and generally impinging on your life?
I used minox for just over a month, and it was everywhere! on my pillows, my towels, my face cloths, my headgear! i hated it, and it gave me fuzzy eyes so i quit, and that felt great! but to me it seems that you're having great results from revivogen.
- I'd much rather use a herbal formula, as i can handle that being on my towels etc, but is it staining or anything?
- am i right that you're getting regrowth on your vertex from revivogen alone?
as for my alt. topical thing, my current regimen is just nizoral, some supplements, (MSM, Beta-sitosterol,zinc + copper) and Tom Hagerty's scalp excercises.
I've promised myself that i'll make a real commitment to a treatment by the end of this month, and i'm considering using zix w/azaelic acid, and copper or tin peptides.
my reasoning on this topical regimen is that zinc+ b6 when mixed with azaelic acid has been shown to be an effective dht inhibitor, whilst the peptides have been shown to help with inflammation, fibrosis etc.
does this make sense to you? i consider the zix regimen to be fairly encompassing of mpb factors, but i welcome any opinions on it!
Morphollica - alt. topicals + Revivogen
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jikslee
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here's an abstract for the copper peptides -
http://www.regrowth.com/hair_loss_treat ... amin_2.cfm
pleez exskuze th previus espeling mistaek for azelaic acid:P
here's the abstract for azelaic acid, taken from
"http://www.hairsite.com/secure/razack_crinagen.htm"
"Abstract of Stamatiadis' 1988 study:
Br J Dermatol 1988 Nov;119(5):627-632 Inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase activity in human skin by zinc and azelaic acid.
Stamatiadis D, Bulteau-Portois MC, Mowszowicz I
Laboratoire de Biochimie B, Hopital Necker-Enfants-Malades, Paris, France.
The effects of zinc sulphate and azelaic acid on 5 alpha-reductase activity in human skin were studied using an in vitro assay with 1,2[3H]-testosterone as substrate. When added at concentrations of 3 or 9 mmol/l, zinc was a potent inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase activity. At high concentrations, zinc could completely inhibit the enzyme activity. Azelaic acid was also a potent inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase; inhibition was detectable at concentrations as low as 0.2 mmol/l and was complete at 3 mmol/l. An additive effect of the two inhibitors was observed. Vitamin B6 potentiated the inhibitory effect of zinc, but not of azelaic acid, suggesting that two different mechanisms are involved. When the three substances were added together at very low concentrations which had been shown to be ineffective alone, 90% inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase activity was obtained. If this inhibition is confirmed in vivo, zinc sulphate combined with azelaic acid could be an effective agent in the treatment of androgen related pathology of human skin.
PMID: 3207614, UI: 89087983
The reservations one might have regarding the Stamatiadis study are (1) that the study was done on rats, (2) that is was done on prostate tissue (and not on hair tissue) and (3) that it was done "in vitro" (essentially means, "not in a living organism"). Cells in living tissue generally show a considerable ability to protect themselves from invasion. Treating pure 5-AR directly with azelaic acid in a lab flask is somewhat different from exposing the living cell to azelaic acid. Nevertheless, what happens "in vitro" often reveals clues as to what might happen "in vivo" (in a living organism)."
http://www.regrowth.com/hair_loss_treat ... amin_2.cfm
pleez exskuze th previus espeling mistaek for azelaic acid:P
here's the abstract for azelaic acid, taken from
"http://www.hairsite.com/secure/razack_crinagen.htm"
"Abstract of Stamatiadis' 1988 study:
Br J Dermatol 1988 Nov;119(5):627-632 Inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase activity in human skin by zinc and azelaic acid.
Stamatiadis D, Bulteau-Portois MC, Mowszowicz I
Laboratoire de Biochimie B, Hopital Necker-Enfants-Malades, Paris, France.
The effects of zinc sulphate and azelaic acid on 5 alpha-reductase activity in human skin were studied using an in vitro assay with 1,2[3H]-testosterone as substrate. When added at concentrations of 3 or 9 mmol/l, zinc was a potent inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase activity. At high concentrations, zinc could completely inhibit the enzyme activity. Azelaic acid was also a potent inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase; inhibition was detectable at concentrations as low as 0.2 mmol/l and was complete at 3 mmol/l. An additive effect of the two inhibitors was observed. Vitamin B6 potentiated the inhibitory effect of zinc, but not of azelaic acid, suggesting that two different mechanisms are involved. When the three substances were added together at very low concentrations which had been shown to be ineffective alone, 90% inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase activity was obtained. If this inhibition is confirmed in vivo, zinc sulphate combined with azelaic acid could be an effective agent in the treatment of androgen related pathology of human skin.
PMID: 3207614, UI: 89087983
The reservations one might have regarding the Stamatiadis study are (1) that the study was done on rats, (2) that is was done on prostate tissue (and not on hair tissue) and (3) that it was done "in vitro" (essentially means, "not in a living organism"). Cells in living tissue generally show a considerable ability to protect themselves from invasion. Treating pure 5-AR directly with azelaic acid in a lab flask is somewhat different from exposing the living cell to azelaic acid. Nevertheless, what happens "in vitro" often reveals clues as to what might happen "in vivo" (in a living organism)."
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HairLossFight.com
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Hello jikslee and welcome!
I have not found Revivogen's smell all that bad. It doesn't stink like Spiro does, that's for sure. As for oiliness, I can only see this being a problem if you use too much. In fact, I find that it absorbs much better than minox and rather quickly. I have lightly tanned skin so I don't get any coloration at all from using it, but I guess if you have very light or whitish skin and you apply it on bare areas then its possible you may see some coloration because of the grape seed extract in it.
You are correct that I used Revivogen exclusively for several months in my crown area and have found it to be effective.
I am a bit concerned that you may have been using too much minox, and that's why it was getting all over the place. Why not just use it at night-time? I don't have this problem with minox at all, because I don't overuse it and because I use it at night when I don't care what it looks like. I don't really notice anything much on the pillow in the morning. My concern is that if you dislike the minox for the reasons you stated you may dislike Revivogen as well. Use them at night and then don't worry about it. I have heard complaints about puffy eyes from minox, but I think that's potentially hyperchondriachal. If you use these things you should do everything else you can to stay healthy such as working out and eating right and this should offset the puffiness. I'm not a doctor so by all means if you're concerned about this you should get a doctor's opinion as you may have an allergy or oversensitivy to minox. But don't rule it out until you do all your homework and give it a real shot.
Your reasoning for a regimen does make sense, but I also think that it's deficient if you don't use minoxidil. In my opinion Revivogen is a great combo product. If you had to choose one product then that would be up there at the top for it's ability to maintain your hair and it's potential to regrow some hair. I think you should give minox a second chance if you haven't completely ruled it out and are not 100% sure that it is the reason for the puffy eyes, and if you don't have an allergy. But the two together are like chocolate and peanut butter if you ask me.
I have not found Revivogen's smell all that bad. It doesn't stink like Spiro does, that's for sure. As for oiliness, I can only see this being a problem if you use too much. In fact, I find that it absorbs much better than minox and rather quickly. I have lightly tanned skin so I don't get any coloration at all from using it, but I guess if you have very light or whitish skin and you apply it on bare areas then its possible you may see some coloration because of the grape seed extract in it.
You are correct that I used Revivogen exclusively for several months in my crown area and have found it to be effective.
I am a bit concerned that you may have been using too much minox, and that's why it was getting all over the place. Why not just use it at night-time? I don't have this problem with minox at all, because I don't overuse it and because I use it at night when I don't care what it looks like. I don't really notice anything much on the pillow in the morning. My concern is that if you dislike the minox for the reasons you stated you may dislike Revivogen as well. Use them at night and then don't worry about it. I have heard complaints about puffy eyes from minox, but I think that's potentially hyperchondriachal. If you use these things you should do everything else you can to stay healthy such as working out and eating right and this should offset the puffiness. I'm not a doctor so by all means if you're concerned about this you should get a doctor's opinion as you may have an allergy or oversensitivy to minox. But don't rule it out until you do all your homework and give it a real shot.
Your reasoning for a regimen does make sense, but I also think that it's deficient if you don't use minoxidil. In my opinion Revivogen is a great combo product. If you had to choose one product then that would be up there at the top for it's ability to maintain your hair and it's potential to regrow some hair. I think you should give minox a second chance if you haven't completely ruled it out and are not 100% sure that it is the reason for the puffy eyes, and if you don't have an allergy. But the two together are like chocolate and peanut butter if you ask me.
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jikslee
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I appreciate your minox concern morph, but i'm not going to go back to it any time soon. i continued using minox while getting sore eyes, as i really wanted to believe it was something else; like maybe was spending to much time at the computer or staring to hair at my hair line. sadly this was not the case, and thorugh a process of elimination it was obviously the minox. It could have been the alcohol in the solution, so if i really need it there is a non-alcohol version around that i may try.
However, i don't think that minox is entirely necessary for success. In case you haven't seen this, spooky's case is worth checking out. He used minox on/off so it's tough to attribute growth to it:
http://www.angelfire.com/dc2/spooky/
it seems to me that my home brew may actually work like revivogen, as revivogen has zinc, b6, azelaic acid. What i may do is use this for four-six months and then re-evaluate whether minox is necessary.
Thankyou for bringing that idea to my attention btw, it's good to leave myself open to one of the FDA proven treatments i guess!
However, i don't think that minox is entirely necessary for success. In case you haven't seen this, spooky's case is worth checking out. He used minox on/off so it's tough to attribute growth to it:
http://www.angelfire.com/dc2/spooky/
it seems to me that my home brew may actually work like revivogen, as revivogen has zinc, b6, azelaic acid. What i may do is use this for four-six months and then re-evaluate whether minox is necessary.
Thankyou for bringing that idea to my attention btw, it's good to leave myself open to one of the FDA proven treatments i guess!
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matteo
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I've just started my regimen seriously as well. I am on the Kirkland 5% Minoxidil and Revivogen. Personally, I don't find anything bad about Revivogen except its price. However with Minoxidil, I still feel some irritation on my scalp after the application. The itchiness seems to get better (I've just started Minoxidil for a week) but hopefully it will vanished soon.
Does your scalp respond the same way with Minoxidil? Or am I just a rare case who feel discomfort (has been one week) with the Minoxidil.
I've decided to go with Minoxidil because I've noticed some convincing results from my father after he's been on it for about 6 months already.
As for my progress, I'll try to keep everyone updated as for how my regimen goes.
Sam, good luck and hope you go through your difficult time quickly!
Does your scalp respond the same way with Minoxidil? Or am I just a rare case who feel discomfort (has been one week) with the Minoxidil.
I've decided to go with Minoxidil because I've noticed some convincing results from my father after he's been on it for about 6 months already.
As for my progress, I'll try to keep everyone updated as for how my regimen goes.
Sam, good luck and hope you go through your difficult time quickly!
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HairLossFight.com
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Matteo,
I have irritation from minoxidil solutions that contain propylene glycol. I don't experience any irritation from Xandrox15 which doesn't use prop. gly. It uses glycerin instead.
If the itchiness you are experiencing is mild, I would use it for a while longer to see how you adjust to it, and if it gets worse, or really bothers you, switch to a non-propylene-glycol-based minox.
Definitely keep us posted. I am very interested in your progress as you are on a very similar regimen to mine. Make sure you take before and after pics!
Regards,
Sam
I have irritation from minoxidil solutions that contain propylene glycol. I don't experience any irritation from Xandrox15 which doesn't use prop. gly. It uses glycerin instead.
If the itchiness you are experiencing is mild, I would use it for a while longer to see how you adjust to it, and if it gets worse, or really bothers you, switch to a non-propylene-glycol-based minox.
Definitely keep us posted. I am very interested in your progress as you are on a very similar regimen to mine. Make sure you take before and after pics!
Regards,
Sam