question for pete

[1.....]

hey pete,

I was just wondering about Epilobium which you take. Is it better than saw palmetto or bita sit in blocking DHT? is there potential for sides? thanks!

[Pete2]

hey pete,

I was just wondering about Epilobium which you take. Is it better than saw palmetto or bita sit in blocking DHT? is there potential for sides? thanks!

Epilobium inhibits 5ar enzyme and aromatase enzyme thus it works on DHT and Estradiol.

This being the case you shouldnt find any side effects.

In theory and in my opinion it is more effective than SP alone.

I havent taken it for a while as Im concentrating on a few other areas.

However I may restart sometime in the near future.

If you want I can post some studies?




Regards
Pete

[1.....]

sure a study would be great. would should this not cause sides though if it inhibits ar 5? and also would this be equivalent to taking SP and Pygeum. thanks

[kamui]

Don't mean to hi-jack thread here but I got a question for pete

Pete, you think eating whole flax seed is bad for men??

[Pete2]

sure a study would be great. would should this not cause sides though if it inhibits ar 5? and also would this be equivalent to taking SP and Pygeum. thanks

I will search for the study.

Epilobium works a little differently to SP.

However SP and Pygeum together should inhibit 5ar enzyme and Estradiol also in theory.

You may notice side effects when you try to inhibit *5ar alone* as there is an increase in Testosterone which converts into Estradiol via aromatase. However by inhibiting DHT and Estradiol together you shouldnt get any sides.



Regards
Pete

[Pete2]

Don't mean to hi-jack thread here but I got a question for pete

Pete, you think eating whole flax seed is bad for men??

Not sure -why?


Regards
Pete

[kamui]

The lignans in flaxseed have estrogen effect?

[jksl]

flax is pretty damn high in phyto-estrogens.

[Pete2]

The lignans in flaxseed have estrogen effect?

Estrogen promotes fat, fatty tissue produces more estrogen in cells, which then promotes more fat - catch 22.

So Exercise, reduced saturated fat and less sugar should also help with estrogen levels.

Certain foods are said to help also:

"Passiflora, chamomile, bee products, citrus fruits, onion, garlic, and cruciferous vegetables (broccoli, cauliflower, brussel sprouts and cabbage.Omega 3 fatty acids (N-3), derived from flaxseeds, hempseeds and fatty fish. "





Regards
Pete

[Pete2]

sure a study would be great. would should this not cause sides though if it inhibits ar 5? and also would this be equivalent to taking SP and Pygeum. thanks

Study on Epilobium :


Inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase and aromatase by the ellagitannins oenothein A and oenothein B from Epilobium species."

Planta Med 1997 Apr;63(2):111-4

Ducrey B, Marston A, Gohring S, Hartmann RW, Hostettmann K. (Institut de Pharmacognosie et Phytochimie, Universite de Lausanne, Switzerland.)

Species of the genus Epilobium (Onagraceae) have been investigated for their activity against 5 alpha-reductase and aromatase, two enzymes which are involved in the aetiology of benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH). Activity-guided fractionation has led to the identification of two macrocyclic ellagitannins, oenothein A (1) and oenothein B (2), as the main constituents responsible for the inhibition of the two enzymes. Quantitation of oenothein B in 10 different species of Epilobium has shown that amounts of up to 14% in the crude plant extracts are possible. PMID: 9140222 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



"Anti-inflammatory effects of a substance extracted from Epilobium angustifolium."
Agents Actions 1988 Feb;23(1-2):106-7

Juan H, Sametz W, Hiermann A. (Institut fur experimentelle und klinische Pharmakologie, Universitat Graz, Austria.)

PMID: 3354371 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



"Determination of oenothein B as the active 5-alpha-reductase-inhibiting principle of the folk medicine Epilobium parviflorum."
J Nat Prod 1996 May;59(5):490-2

Lesuisse D, Berjonneau J, Ciot C, Devaux P, Doucet B, Gourvest JF, Khemis B, Lang C, Legrand R, Lowinski M, Maquin P, Parent A, Schoot B, Teutsch G. (Centre de Recherche ROUSSEL UCLAF, Roumainville, France.)

Several extracts from Epilobium parviflorum, a plant used in Central Europe for the treatment of prostate disorders, were evaluated in a biochemical assay with 5-alpha-reductase. The aqueous extract displaying inhibition of the enzyme was analyzed, the fraction responsible for this activity was purified, and the active compound identified as a macrocyclic tannin, oenothein B (1). PMID: 8778238 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]






Regards
Pete