SEVERE Fallout with Minoxidil

[air]

I began using Minoxidil 5% for two weeks now on my hairline, frontal, middle, and crown areas which were thinining somewhat in density (the hair was still full length dark hairs and were not falling out very fast at all). Now I am practically bald after two weeks of minoxidil usage. Literally - I counted and have about 300 hairs left on the area I used the minoxidil.

I am scared out of my mind now !!! Should I STOP and try to salvage the hairs I still have left OR keep using the minoxidil?

HAS ANYONE had this experience of such severe FALLOUT from minoxidil but the fallout stopped and your hair ended up coming back full and thicker than before using it?????????????????

[Gaga]

Hey air, I would love to know too as I am soon gonna use Minoxidil 5%.
All the experts/long time users here should be able to provide an answer.
I hope you get an answer. Otherwise I will be giving you the answer in a few weeks time when I myself use it.
Good luck & cheers

[HairLossFight.com]

Hello air,

In answer to your question: I have experienced significant fallout (that felt severe to me) after starting minox, only to find that after a year I was WAY better off... Now I have some points and questions for you:

First, I would like to know what kind of density you had BEFORE you started using minoxidil two weeks ago. You say you have about 300 hairs up top now, so there must not have been much there two weeks ago either no matter how severe your hair loss over the last month has been. If you didn't have much hair to begin with when you started minox, you shouldn't expect that it will immediately work to reverse your hair loss.

Second, do you know what kind of hair loss you are suffering from? If it's pattern loss, where do you rank on the following scale?:

http://www.morphollica.com/research/norwood.php

Depending on where you are on this scale your expectations for minox should vary.

Third, shedding is to be expected on minox to a degree. You will go through phases of shedding and growth as your hair renews itself over several successive anagen and telogen phases. Sure, there is a chance that you may have experienced some shock loss from starting minox but if it's not some kind of allergic reaction that you are experiencing, then over time you should expect an improvement in the overall quality of your hair as your body gets accustomed to the minox.

Anyway, I have had my own panic sessions even over the last year, but I am now sitting here with significant regrowth and improvement in my overall hair after a full year of being consistent on my regimen.

How much minox are you using per day? Do you have any irritation from it?

Sam

[air]

I am a stage between 5A and 6 except I am VERY different since I really have hairs covering my entire head but just lower in density (very low now) and no receeding hair line or rounding of the corners.
I use Minox 2 mL twice per day for complete coverage. I have no irritation or redness.
As far a the 300 hairs upon close examination it is more like 300 "folicular units" each one with about 1-3 hairs.
Before using minoxidil without a doubt I had 10 times the density more like 1300 "folicular units"
Obviously I look very bald now and the scalp can be seen clearly between the "folicular units"
I have no doubt judging by the amount of fallout compared to what's left in a couple more weeks at this rate I will be completely bald.
When you say you had "significant fallout" how much was this per day aprox.? Were these full grown hairs that had become loosely attached and by lightly combing with a hand they came out? Did this "significant fallout" continue during the whole year? Did this "significant fallout" ever stop" Did/do you use Minox over your entire scalp?
I am quite scared now and wishing I had never started. I guess you hear the slogan do something now before it gets worse - well I'm telling you it can be much worse and doing something can obviously cause it to be worse.
At the very least either if I would stop the Minox now or continue I would want to end up with the same amount of hair I started with.

[kakarot]

Dont stop using the Minox, you started, why stop now. If anything, get a DHT inhibitor like Propecia, Proscar, or Revivogen, so that way your hair loss is not that extreme and most hair will stay in place. And also, minox will make your hair fallout cause well, in order for new hair to come in, old hair has to fallout. So give it a chance, you can find different types of minox too at dr. lee's site. If you stop, youll just be stuck with the 300 hairs you got left

[air]

Hello Kakarot,

Please tell me what your experience with Minox
Did you loose 10 times your density of hair after using it?

Did it eventually make your head completely devoid of all hair follicles BUT then after many months your hair miraculously grew back in thicker and fuller than ever?
It seems to go against all logic to think Minox will do anything except remove all my hair.

If there is someone here that can tell me Minox made them completely bald and then a year down the line it was growing thicker and fuller than ever then I would consider continuing using it.

However, like I said before Minox my hair loss was SLOW.
If I were to have guessed at the rate of loss I had beforehand it would have been 10 years before I was at the point I am at now just after using Minox a couple of weeks.

From what I can see at this point Minox would be wonderful if marketed as an awesome hair remover.
If it wasn't so tragic you could laugh a $12 bottle of Minox removed the same amount of hair that would cost $12,000 in hair transplants.

Maybe if you are already completely bald go ahead and use it since you have nothing at all to loose at that point and EVERYTHING to gain.

[Gaga]

Take it easy mate,
I think kakarot is trying to help you here.
I understand that you are frustrated but DONOT take it out on people who are trying to give you some advice.
Cheers
Gaga

[air]

You misunderstood Gaga, I hold nothing against kakarot nor am I angry
AT ALL at him. I'm not sure how you thought this but forgive me if it seemed that way.

What I was saying was I would like him to tell me his personal experience with Minox that makes him believe it will at the very least grow back all the hairs the Minox took away from me let alone give me some net gain of hairs.

If I heard this information from him it would it would be very helpful.
But at this point Minox at least for me seems like a very good product for removing hair rather than growing as the FDA claims.

[HairLossFight.com]

Air,

Let's be clear on something. Just because you perceive that Minoxidil is not working for you doesn't mean that it doesn't work or that it causes hair loss. Minoxidil is PROVEN to do just the opposite in the majority of people. Your comments, while I'm sure you feel genuine about them, will only scare people who don't know better into thinking that Minoxidil could make their situation worse (which unless they are allergic to it or the solution its in is absolutely untrue!) Minox is a staple and an absolute must for anyone who wants to do whatever they can to fight their hair loss.

Unless you are experiencing an allergic reaction, or your problem is not just androgenetic alopecia (that is, you have some underlying illness contributing to your hair loss) then you can't blame the minox.

There is just way too much science backing it up. I have had great results myself when staying consistent. I did however find out that I was allergic to propylene glycol, so I switched to a minox without it.

As for shedding, prolonged shedding of several weeks where you lose TERMINAL COSMETICALLY SIGNIFICANT hair is not uncommon, and I have experienced this. It has always bounced back for me, and I have at the very least maintained my existing hair in some places and regrown it in others.

The reason I asked you what Norwood you are at is because I wanted to get an idea of the level of your hair loss. You are at a pretty high norwood level already. Which means you had lost a significant amount of hair even before you started the minox, and have been experiencing hair loss for most likely a few years at least (I'm guessing 5 or more). If that's the case then you've got to calibrate your expectations.

Androgenetic Alopecia is a condition for which there are no perfect solutions. It is also one that is progressively more difficult to treat the further along you are on the Norwood scale. Your hair has been miniaturizing over successive growth and loss stages for years to have reached the point that you are at now. It's analogous to trying to change momentum and direction of an object. Think of a car that is accelerating as a metaphor for hair loss. If your car has only been accelerating for a few seconds then you haven't accumulated a lot of speed, so you need a lot less force to stop the car and a lot less distance to decelerate until you come to a complete stop. Now imagine that you have been accelerating for 30 seconds or more, you're now going at least 150mph and you need to apply more force, and decelerate for a longer period of time and over a longer distance to come to a stop. If your breaks aren't that great, you may not be able to completely stop the car! Now take that and apply it to hair loss. In your situation, you're already at the 150mph level.... which means that applying minox for a short period (or even a relatively long period) of time won't necessary immediately do much for you cosmetically. It will take a long time, and it will take persistence and commitment (again, this is assuming you have no other underlying conditions). You may at best only regain a half or a third of what you lost since you started minox... That's right, you may not even get back to where you were before you started the minox! BUT you will not be WORSE off than if you never started minox.

Also, if you read enough posts in various forums on hair loss, you'll see that there is no magic bullet for everyone. Minox may just not work for you.

For the vast majority of people however who are suffering from hair loss, it is [in conjunction with propecia] the best thing out there to at least help them keep what they have and perhaps regrow some lost hair.

The FDA is not making any claims. The FDA only verifies that the science behind a treatment is sound and thereby approves medication for use in treating various diseases and conditions.

Please try to relax. If I were you I would take some pictures right now of where you're at and then I would stick with treatments for at least 3 to 6 months and up to a year, then take more photos and compare them. But that's just me. You already have lost most of your hair according to your own descriptions so you don't have a lot too lose and plenty to gain.

Sam

[kakarot]

Hey, to reply to your question yes I have used Minox and yes it did make my hair out faster and no I didnt like it at all but yes I was expecting it to happen. I have stopped using Minox but I DO plan no using it again in the future. The only reason why I stopped using it is cause Im in college and Im self conscious of my hair. So I figure when I graduate in a month and a half Im gonna start using minox again so that way the extra shedding phase happens I wont have to be around my college peers. Its a lame excuse but hey, its really embarassing for me if people knew I was going bald at my age. Cause in all reality I should be using Minox now and I shouldnt of stopped. But right now Im just taking vitamins and green tea and using certain shampoo's to slow down my hair loss, and amazingly Im not losing that much hair as before but I still need to regrow some of it. So thats where the minox falls in. You should take Sam's advise and try to find out if your having an allergic reaction and you can get different types of minox from Dr. Lee's site. I'm sorry I cant help that much but all I can say is that minox will make hair fall out faster before new hair can grow back, and the extra hair loss is temporary plus minox has different results on every individual.

[air]

Hello Morphollica,

I am not trying to scare anyone but this is all I know from my personal experience:

I went to 3 dermatologists they all said it was Adrogenic Alopecia and I have no underlying disease. They also said I really don't fit the typical Norwood scale since my entire scalp WAS covered in cosmetically THICK terminal hairs but there was a lack of density in all of the DHT prone areas - and there were no terminally short hairs.

So if someone were to have looked at me from a distance of three feet before using Minox they would have thought I had a full head of hair.
Only upon close examination and running your hands through it would you have noticed there a lack of density.

Now AFTER using Minox - YES my head is obviously bald from ANY distance.
Therefore I went cosmetically from a Norwood I to a Norwood 5A or 6 practically over night.

Now put yourself into my shoes and imagine how you would feel to wake up and see practically scalp everywhere on your head.
To look totally different and obviously bald to everyone in your life.
To have people running up to you and asking if you have cancer and are undergoing chemotherapy treatment because you look so different now.

Perhaps it wouldn't bother you at all - and all I can say is you are a much better man than I.
I truly hope you never have to experience complete baldness like I am facing now.

True I probably would have had to face baldness like this 10 or 20 years down the line due to heredity but right now I obviously owe it all to a bottle of Minox and my own stupidity in wanting to have fuller hair.

[HairLossFight.com]

Air

I am not trying to diminish how you feel in anyway. I totally feel for your situation and think hair loss is a serious crappy thing. I just think you're misdirecting your anger. By the way, just to let you know, I suffer not only from Androgenetic Alopecia, but also from Folliculitis Decalvans, which was only very recently diagnosed. This is after 10 years of losing hair and visiting several dermatologists. Only recently did one realize I had an underlying condition aside from Androgenetic Alopecai... So your derms may not have noticed something. However, if you don't have an underlying condition, then it sounds to me from your description that you had the form of Androgenetic Alopecia called FPB or female pattern baldness. Men or Women can both have FPB.

So if you don't have some other condition, and if its not just your androgenetic alopecia getting worse, then you may have had an allergic reaction that caused some hair loss, or you may have suffered from a shock loss or telogen effluvium. You have one of two choices (1) either keep on using minox and hope that over the next few months things will turn around or (2) stop using minox and see if things revert back to the way they were.

I would go for 1 over 2 personally. By the way, is your scalp irritated in any way? Especially after you apply the minox?

Regards,
Sam

[Gaga]

Hey there,
Now that this thread has cooled down, I can post something.
Air, sorry I did not mean to tell you off or have a go at you. Sorry!
I hope things are cool with you.
I feel what you are going through, we all have been there that is why we are here reading this post.
Personally, I keep my hair short (#1 - #2).
A. The shedding would not be that obvious,
B. It would be easier to apply the solution.
I have found this article about shedding so I thought you might benefit from it.
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/newsletter/article220.htm
Today is my fifth week using Proscar and in the last few days I have noticed some shedding at a slow rate and according to what I have read so far, it is a good sign, so I am sticking with Proscar.
You see; I either quit and accept it or go on swallowing Proscar and hope for the best. Ive committed myself and decided to carry on with what I have started.
By the way, my hair loss ranks on the Norwood Scale at I.
What exciting is, today I received my 5% Minoxidil Solution w/o Propylene Glycol. I havent used it yet. Wish me luck..
I think that is all for now.
Cheers,
Gaga

[HondaCBR600RR]

@Air

Had the same result but only after 6 weeks.
But now after 6 months using Minox and Proscar 1/4 it looks much better then before.
I shave my hair No.1 every week. My hair is coming out much thicker and it's harder. I'm on Norwood Scale 4.
The new hair is totaly blonde and I have brown hair.

Just don't stop using it.

[Tricia]

Here's my thoughts on it. The minoxidil dread shed will cause you to lose the hair you would have lost over the next few months. You lose that hair over a period of weeks, instead of months.

The severe shed you had, was hair you were destined to lose by year end anyway. Had you not started minoxidil, you would have lost the hair anyway and then some more.

But, the minoxidil might actually coax some of those hair follicles to grow back some of that hair. I had a prolonged dread shed (8 to 10 wks). Some areas of my hair is thinner than they were before, but some are fuller (esp. vertex). The thinner areas, I have to say, that's just my bad luck. I don't think there's anything else I can do about it. I'm a female, so no Propecia for me...but you might try it.

[HairLossFight.com]

Thanks to everyone for the perspectives on this one.

The sheds truly suck and, Air, I hope you manage to regrow the hair you've recently lost (heck I hope you regrow a whole lot more hair!)

Some people think the sheds are caused by the hair follicles in the scalp synchronizing the loss, growth, and resting phases. As some of you know, hair grows in cycles. At all times some of our hair is being shed while other follicles are resting while others are growing. I have read in various forums people talking about a theory that maybe when we start a treatment like minox it causes the cycles to get synchronized thereby causing the sheds when hair goes into resting phase.

I have NO idea whether this is true, but it's interesting to speculate sometimes... if only to convince oneself that things can get better.

[air]

First I want to thank everyone for their comments and again I want to make clear that I bear NO anger toward anyone on the site. This would be quite ridiculous since none of you caused my hair loss.
By the way it would be interesting to hear what Minox is doing to Gaga so far after a week. Is he applying it to a small area or his entire scalp?
Also this interesting question for Sam are you applying Minox to your entire scalp or just a small area?

So I thought I'd update my condition:
I continued with Minox and the little I had left fell out. I'm now bald as a jaybird. Still no hair regrowth, I even used a high power mirror to see if anything was coming out of the follicles - NOTHING
But I did do something interesting I left a small patch untouched by Minox and that patch is growing some hair. Not as much as before Minox but still some hair.
Obviously this is disconcerting when the product is expressly designed to stimulate follicle growth and not inhibit it (and the FDA backs this claim from the studies done)

Now there is another interesting perspective I'd personally like to examine. Please know I have NO anger and you bear ABSOLUTELY NO BLAME I'm just putting forth a view here. Sam you originally made a statement that I "[would] not be WORSE off than if never started minox.
Well this statement in my view is false, at least extent of my personal experience so far.
To back me up, we can also look to HondaCBR600RR who now inexplicably has blond hair but worse than this it sounds like he still has much less than when started using minox.
Secondly, we can look at my_username who admits she has areas than were thicker than before but also some which are much thinner than before using minox.
Finally, by your own admission Sam you originally said I might only expect to grow back one-half or one-third of what I had previously to using minox.
BUT anyway I want to also thank you Sam for your well wishes that it should ALL grow back and then some - I do appreciate this - I hope so too and would extend this wish to everyone on this site.

So here is the way I see it, it is all about perspective or where on the timeline you are.
For me with slow hair loss I have no doubts in my mind my hair would have remained with me for at least another 10 years or more and would have been cosmetically effective during that period (and I don't feel this is an exaggeration or wishful thinking).

So in evaluating this scenario, minox definitely caused my hair loss by accelerating it. I feel minox should carry a warning label to this effect.
So I ask you out there what is better - to gradually thin over many years or to loose it practically over night - I would take the former if I had it to do over again.

[HairLossFight.com]

Hi air,

Again, Minox is not a miracle treatment. If you're already in an advanced stage of MPB then it may not help you much, and yes it can cause an initial shed, but I am a firm believer after having used it for a long time that if you stick with it for the majority of people it will be useful in the following ways:

1) At a minimum, for most people it will slow the progression of the current loss (sheds notwithstanding, the concensus from most users is that the most if not all the shed hair comes back stronger after a while).

2) For some people it will temporarily halt their hair loss. I say temporarily because if it is not used with a dht-inhibitor or anti-androgen product like Propecia, Proscar, Finpecia, Revivogen or Topical Spiro (and there are others), then the underlying hormonal cause is not being addressed, so eventually the progression of MPB WILL continue.

3) For some people it will regrow some lost hair. I have fit into this category and am very happy. But I am also using Revivogen and Proscar cut up into quarters, so I am optimistic that I will keep this regrowth for at least some time to come.

Fighting hair loss is like building up a dam against a flood. At the moment the dam building tools that we have (minox, propecia and all the other potential treatments) while helpful, aren't that good. But they're the tools we have so for most of us it makes sense to use them till something better comes along.

Your recent loss may have been spurred on by initiating minox, but this is a known phenomenon, and risk associated with the treatment. For most, its not a show stopper. I am fully of the belief that any hair that you lost during this shed you would have lost ANYWAY and SOON. Only if you weren't using minox, then at the stage of MPB that you're at, most of them would never grow back, and if they did they would be weaker and more vellous. The hair that may grow back if you stick with minox will be stronger than before it was shed.

Again, I totally disagree that minoxidil is the direct 'cause' of your hair loss. What hair you have recently lost, you probably would have lost anyway very soon.

Suppose you had a leaking roof on the verge of having to be completely removed and rebuilt, and someone told you that it may be possible to repair the leaking roof of your house without completely writing it off if you use a special kind of coating on the roof for at least 6 months. This coating may at first increase the amount of leakage, but their is a good chance that after it sets over the period of 6 months, most of the leaks may be stopped. If your roof is a writeoff anyway, and you're clinging to a couple of moldy old shingles, don't you think it's worth the risk of a little more leakage in the short term if it's potentially possible to stop most of the leaks with the special coating? And an even more pertinent question: wouldn't it be counterintuitive to apply a few coats, then see that sure enough there is increased leakage, and then say "Aha! It's the coating! I should never have started using it because now my last several shingles are destroyed and I have more leaks!" and then you stop using the coating and live with the extra leaks without giving the coating its full chance? The worst case scenario here is that in the end the roof is a write-off. Is it now the coating's fault that there are more leaks? Or could there have been a chance that if you'd stuck with it through the 6 month time frame things would have improved ...? See what I'm getting here?

...As is the case with our hair loss. Unfortunately for our balding pates, the coating and a few other things are all we have at this point (minus getting a hair transplant). That's the state of affairs for us until something better comes along.

Again, I don't know if you're having an allergic reaction and I'm not a doctor, so if I were you I would seek more help. There is an ask the experts section on my site:

http://www.morphollica.com/hairloss_experts/

you can use to post a question to a doc. Sometimes it takes a while for them to respond. The quickest responder is Dr. Khadavi. You may want to try that, but ultimately only an expert who follows your situation closely can give you really useful medical advice. Sometimes you have to look around to find the right expert.

Best Regards,
Sam

[air]

Thank you Sam for your response.

First do you mind answering the question I asked. Do you apply minox to most of your scalp or only certain small select areas? My guess is you apply it only to a very small area with very little hair to begin with but I'd be interested in hearing what is actually the case.

I will now attempt to address the points you brought up:

1. My doctor did not say I was at an advanced stage before using minox., like I said my hair my hair was thinning but still covered in long dark terminal hairs not vellus that gave the appearance of a full head of hair except upon close examination.
2. In some small areas of the scalp that I never even applied minox in the first place I still have strong. I can comb it and nothing more than 1-2 hairs comes out.
3. I never lost more than 50 hairs per day before using minox, immediately (2-3 days) upon using minox this eventually progressed to about 300-500 per day. So it was obviously a direct correlation to minox usage.
4. The analogy you use is interesting but has flaws in my opinion so I'll address them also.
A. I don't think my hair was at the stage that it was a complete write-off like the roof in your illustration
B. Like I said the amount and quality of the hairs I had before minox were not merely "a few moldy shingles". Again the hairs I had were cosmetically significant enough to give the appearance of a full head of hair except upon close examination.

If these above conditions were met then your analogy would have been good.
Otherwise, in my particular case, a better analogy is this:

You have a roof covered in fairly good shingles but over time one-third have loosened severely or even fallen off and of course given enough time and subjected to the elements the other two-thirds will undoubtedly loosen but for the time being these shingles are in fairly good shape.
You then tell me apply this coating, it is not really known for sure if it will set some of the severely loose one-third or even prevent the other two thirds from becoming loose in the future. In the meantime though it is known that this coating will probably loosen the other fairly good two-thirds and might even cause many of them to fall off too. But we hope eventually though that the coating will preserve the majority of your two-thirds fairly good shingles but again this is not known for sure.

Well from my perspective, especially in light of the unknown nature of the coating, I would have rather taken my chances and allowed the ravages of time, weather and the elements to naturally loosen the other two-thirds because at least in the short-term I still would have had two thirds of my house covered in fairly good shingles which were still providing me some protection from the elements.
The better alternative of course would be to replace all the shingles with superior ones less prone to loosen (this would be similar to getting a hair transplant).

I don't believe it could be an allergic reaction to minox because I have no redness of irritation on my scalp, unless severe shedding in and of itself is considered an "allergic reaction"

And again thank you, and please know there is no anger directed at you in what I wrote.

[HairLossFight.com]

In answer to your question, I apply my topicals over my entire scalp.

Air the point of the matter is that your situation is not the norm. I totally feel for your situation, but minoxidil is a proven medication for hair loss, not in one but in numerous independent studies. In these studies it was usually the control group (not using minox) that had a worsening of their hair loss.

You mentioned in a previous post that your doctors said you couldn't classify your hair loss in the Norwood scale. If you had coverage, but your hair was thinning, that could mean you were suffering from FPB or any number of potential causes of hair loss. You may have had good coverage, but those hair could have been hanging from a thread. I can't say from our conversations what the cause of your hair loss is but it sounds like a severe case of telogen effluvium. Sometimes telogen effluvium shed hairs recover, sometimes they don't.

What I can say however is that the science has shown that minoxidil is one of only a few treatments that have been proven to IMPROVE hair loss over baseline. If this were not the fact, then the studies would have shown that most people did not see an improvement, or that even some people had severe fall out. Enough to warrant not approving it for treating hair loss. The point is that your situation, however undesirable, is not the norm by any means. Nor is it clear to me that things will not get better than they are for you right now if you don't continue. But I'll concede that since you've had a massive and severe shed it's tough to want to do anything at this point. Different people will react differently.

If you're convinced that minox has caused your hair loss, then stop using it. In my own case the exact opposity is true. Without minox I would have been much worse off. In fact, I have improved significantly from last year alone and I attribute this improvement primarily to minox.

I have listed 13 abstracts from studies done on minoxidil at the following link:

http://www.morphollica.com/hairloss_tre ... atmentid=1

They can't all be wrong. Neither can the anecdotal evidence from the countless people on the net in various forums that have had success with minox by sticking with it. Does it work for everyone? No. There are no silver bullets yet for hair loss.

Does it cause the kind of hair loss that you've experienced since you started using minox in a lot of people. No. Is it possible that in very rare cases it may cause telogen effluvium and that you may have experienced a serious and severe telogen effluvium as a result of minoxidil. It is possible. But if so, then this is an extremely rare situation. For most people it won't cause this to happen, and you are the first I have heard of that may have had this reaction.

For most people with hair loss it's one of the best tools in their arsenal to fight it.

Best Regards, and best of luck on regrowing your hair,
Sam

[air]

Thanks again Sam, it is somewhat encouraging to hear you applied minox to your entire scalp. This is obviously an off-label usage so it is good to hear others have done this because this was one of my many concerns.
Just to let you know I only began using minox in light of all these studies you provided
Basically in this post I'd like to ask you more specific questions regarding the application of your topicals (more particularly minox) and your history while using them. I realize they are a lot of questions but I appreciate it greatly.
1. So you say you apply minox to your entire scalp, this would not include sides (around the ears) and back of the head which most men do not loose right?
2. Have you always applied minox to your entire scalp?
3. How many mL total of minox solution (5% and 15%) are applied to your entire scalp in any given day?
4. When you began using minox did you immediately experience shedding?
5. If yes, how much shedding approx. (hairs per day)? When did your shedding stop?
6. In your case you say you saw growth of new hairs, after how long were you able to see them even if they were miniature?

Now as far as being convinced minox caused my hairloss; yes I am convinced that at this point in time this was unequivocally the case. It is too much of a coincidence that all the hairs would suddenly become loose as soon I apply the minox and also in the exact areas I applied the topical when previously this same hair was not coming out at any significant rate.

Thank you again in advance for answering and for the well wishes

[HairLossFight.com]

1) I don't apply minox to the sides of the head, or back of the head, basically the areas that don't normally lose hair in men with androgenetic alopecia. focus primarily on the hair line (including the temples) and crown (including the vertex). This basically covers the entire scalp for me.

2) No I haven't always applied it to my entire scalp. When I first started losing hair over 10 years ago, I used 2% minox only in the thinning areas, but for the last few years, I have always covered the entire scalp.

3) I would say no more than about 3ml of combined minox 5% and 15% total per day is what I use. Usually I actually use only 2ml. I should qualify this by saying that I am now weaning off 5% minox and primarily using 15% only once a day. I've had a fair amount of success and now just want to maintain. On days when I do this it amounts to never any more than about 1.5ml max, usually staying within the 1ml limit. I don't drench my scalp in liquid. I usually apply a drop or two of solution, and gently massage it in, and move on to the next area, till I've covered the scalp. 1 to 1.5ml is usually all I need for this.

4) If my memory serves correctly I began shedding very soon after using minox. This scared me and continued for several weeks, but never to the point of being cosmetically significant. I have had shedding cycles of a few days to a few weeks at a time, every now and again, since.

5) I have had days where I have lost 200+ hair at a time while shedding. But this has usually stopped after at most a couple of weeks. I think that for the most part, these shedding phases have been a part of the normal growth and loss cycle of hair for myself, considering I have MPB.

6) When I was using only 2% I didn't see regrowth. When I started 5% I saw regrowth within 3 months. When I started using Xandrox 15 I saw regrowth within the first month. In all cases the initial regrowth was vellous. The 15% caused regrowth has now become terminal cosmetically significant hair in my hair line and vertex, and especially in my temple area. I have seen an overall thickening in the crown after a year of use, but at a snails pace. But I also have folliculitis decalvans in the scalp, which actually causes the follicles to die off so I don't expect the same kind of results in the crown as I experiences in the frontal areas. I do think that if I did not have the folliculitis I would have had great regrowth in the crown as well, but that's a guess on my part.

Regards,
Sam

[HondaCBR600RR]

@AIR

I have much more hair then I had before and it's much thicker in diameter. It is working for me. I think in a years time my hair will look great.

[air]

Thanks Sam once again, the information you provided is interesting in many respects and I appreciate it. If those are your pictures on this site you had about twice the density I began with before starting minox. This is why I am so concerned because now there is no hair on my head. Basically Im just trying to get a handle on just how many hairs you could have possibly lost total during your shedding? Could it have been anyw the total amount of hair I already had on my head? These are the unknowns.
With me minox obviously loosened my follicles and I ended up washing them all out because before I used minox hardly anything came out. Another reason I am very concerned is in all studies of minox they are always exclusively examining hair growth in the crown and only had patients apply minox to the crown. Also in many studies a large percentage of people quit the study could these be possibly be the unspoken of patients for whom minox took out all their hair?
My personal theory at this point is that if they had patients apply minox to the hairline, frontal, mid, and temporal regions more people would have lost all their hair like me and then minox would have never been approved. Although it sounds like from your personal experience this is not the case but I am still leary.
I actually have some more questions though for you Sam
1. For clarification when you had shedding at the 200+ hairs/day level did this occur everyday and for how many weeks?
2. When you apply minox to your entire scalp (excluding the areas not prone to DHT) do make sure the minox is actually fully coming into contact with your scalp observed by extremely thin glistening layer over the entire scalp?
3. How long do you leave it on? I leave mine on a full 10 hours with each application.
4. How often do you shampoo your hair (days per week - whether with nizoral or non-medicated)? When you shampoo do you wash normally - like work up a lather and wash out or are you very delicate and gentle?
5. Do you regularly comb your hair? If yes, wet or dry and how often?
6. From your understanding of minox is it always necessary for a hair follicle to fall out for a new healthier follicle to grow in its place?
7. In the case of your vellus hairs that grew in a places previously lacking, did they have to fall again to become terminal?

I guess this is all for now Sam, thanks again

P.S. I have some questions for you too HondaCBR600RR. Are you confirming that for you minox took out all your hair? Now you say you have much more than before? This would be very encouraging however you say you shave your head. Can you really tell I wonder? (but at least you see something although you say its all blond now). In addition I'm not sure if you can really tell if it's thicker because it is well known that when you shave the shaft of the hair close to the skin and near the root is much thicker anyway. Of course I hope you are right on both counts.

[HairLossFight.com]

1. For clarification when you had shedding at the 200+ hairs/day level did this occur everyday and for how many weeks?

I don't really know if it was every day that I hit that level during a shed, by I know that it did happen for at least several days in a row. I think the worst shed I had lasted about 3 weeks, at that point my crown was very thin looking. I was very discouraged, but stuck with it. I'm glad I did. However, I reduced the amount of topical I was using to a much more reasonable level (I used to apply 3 to 4 mls of topicals a day). I think even while I was shedding, I was regrowing hair at a quick pace as well (different hair follicles in different phases at the same time).

2. When you apply minox to your entire scalp (excluding the areas not prone to DHT) do make sure the minox is actually fully coming into contact with your scalp observed by extremely thin glistening layer over the entire scalp?

Yes. I rub the minox directly to the scalp skin. I apply an amount that gets virtually fully absorbed right away, so it doesn't even seem like there is a layer there after I apply it. However, the skin is a bit shiny where I apply the minox.

3. How long do you leave it on? I leave mine on a full 10 hours with each application.

Because I only apply it once a day at night before I go to bed, I just wash my hair in the morning and don't worry about it till night time again. This way, I don't have my hair loaded down with topicals throughout the day, and I give my scalp a rest period during the day where I don't apply anything to it. I know that the studies were done with twice a day applications, but that doesn't mean once a day applications won't work, especially when using a high concentration minox like Dr. Lee's. Since I have regrown hair at the hairline and temples, at least for me personally this approach has worked.

4. How often do you shampoo your hair (days per week - whether with nizoral or non-medicated)? When you shampoo do you wash normally - like work up a lather and wash out or are you very delicate and gentle?

Shampoo once a day. I would say I wash normally. When using the medicated shampoos I leave it in for several minutes before rinsing.

5. Do you regularly comb your hair? If yes, wet or dry and how often?

I usually keep my hair short. It improves the appearance by making the hair look more dense, so I don't have to comb it. Occasionally I'll let the hair grow longer, in which case I'll comb it while blow drying... But prefer to keep it short.

6. From your understanding of minox is it always necessary for a hair follicle to fall out for a new healthier follicle to grow in its place?

For the most part, I believe this is the case. However, I think it's possible for hair that is just entering anagen phase (or growth phase) then it's possible that minox will give that hair a boost. I have even seen hair go from grey to pigmented again in mid-growth phase! Check out the following link. I actually plucked one of these from my scalp and did the best I could to take a picture of it. Although I'm not sure if it had anything to do with minox, but something I was using had to be involved... My hunch is that it may have been Revivogen:

http://www.morphollica.com/editors_corn ... orialid=50

7. In the case of your vellus hairs that grew in a places previously lacking, did they have to fall again to become terminal?

I believe so. Again this is just a hunch. But the pace has been monumentally slow. The best regrowth I have had has been at the temples. I think over the last year this is exactly what happened. The vellous hair that was growing from the Xandrox fell out and grew back thicker. Not all at the same time of course. But I am very happy with the results.

All that said, it's certainly nowhere near the thickness and density where I want it to be, but I'll take what I can get.

In your own case, I seriously think you should try to get a second and perhaps third opinion from a dermatologist specializing in hair loss to see if there is some other underlying reason why you had this sudden and severe fallout, even if it happened at around the same time you started minox.

Best Regards,
Sam

[HairLossFight.com]

This one is mostly for you, Air.

Someone asked Dr. Bauman about shedding from Minox. Here is his reply:

http://www.morphollica.com/hairloss_exp ... swerid=233

Regards,
Sam