5ar VS androgen inhibition

melchiangmai · Post by **melchiangmai** » Mon May 17, 2004 10:21 am

I know that Spiro is an anti-androgen. Is my following understanding correct?

Propecia prevents the formation of DHT by attaching itself to 5ar so that it can't join with T in forming DHT.

But Spiro nuetralises the remaining DHT that "slips thru" from what the Propecia did not prevent (as propecia reduces about 60% of DHT) so it does not attach to the hair follicle?

This leads to the next question:
Is T alone harmful to the hair follicles? If so, then I assume Spiro will also block the T in attacking hair follicles?

Lastly, some people say Spiro also inhibits the 5ar. Is that true?
Thanks.
Anyway, I plan to use spiro some time next year but wanna start learning about it.

Post by **HairLossFight.com** » Mon May 17, 2004 11:40 pm

Hi melchangmai,

Propecia prevents the formation of DHT by attaching itself to 5ar so that it can't join with T in forming DHT

This is how I understand it.

But Spiro nuetralises the remaining DHT that "slips thru" from what the Propecia did not prevent (as propecia reduces about 60% of DHT) so it does not attach to the hair follicle?

The theory is, spiro binds with the androgen receptors on the hair follicle thereby preventing those receptors from being binded to by the DHT (or T for that matter)

This leads to the next question:
Is T alone harmful to the hair follicles? If so, then I assume Spiro will also block the T in attacking hair follicles?

The affinity of DHT to androgen receptors is supposedly much higher than T. This particular question is somewhat controversial. We know that DHT is problematic in people genetically predisposed to hair loss, but it is not exactly clear whether T plays a role. If it does, it's less probably less of a role than that played by DHT. In any case, spiro will prevent the T from binding to the receptors as well as DHT.

Lastly, some people say Spiro also inhibits the 5ar. Is that true?

I'm not sure on this one. Have to do some research...

Regards,
Sam

melchiangmai · Post by **melchiangmai** » Tue May 18, 2004 5:57 am

Thanks Sam, that was important. I use to think Spiro goes around changing the DHT to something else. Now I know the mechanism is different, which is it actually binds to the hair receptors (like Fluridil).

Having said this, I wonder if there are some topical hormones (sold commercially for hairloss) we can apply to convert the DHT in the scalp to something less harmful. This could still be an added angle to attack MPB.

In lipoxidil.com I see some products like Estradiol, Flutamide, etc. Do these work like Spiro or do they actually change the DHT as mentioned above?
Thanks.

melchiangmai · Post by **melchiangmai** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 5:53 am

Hi Sam!
I'm back! Glad to see things progressing in the site. I also saw your site when searching the term "Crinagen". It was on the first page of googles! Good results!

I learned from you that spiro works in binding with the hair receptors so DHT doesn't bind to it. However, I was wondering if there is something that you can apply that actually changes or "neutralises" the DHT in the scalp to something less harmful?

In lipoxidil.com I see some products like Estradiol, Flutamide, etc. Do these work like Spiro or do they actually change the DHT as mentioned above?
Thanks.

Post by **HairLossFight.com** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:21 pm

Hi melchangmai,

Good to see you back! Yeah there are quite a few key search phrases for the site nowadays but it still has a long way to go to get to the top ten for the main phrase I'd like the site to come up for in a search.

As for something that neutralises DHT itself by turning it to something less harmful, apparantly equol, a molecule in soy isoflavones can do this. See the following article:

http://www.morphollica.com/?newsid=23

I'm sure there are others as androgens and estrogens can get converted to other hormones with the certain enzymes act as catalysts to convert them. I am no doctor or expert in this area at all, but I think the key part of your question is the term 'less harmful'. Anything that upsets your overall hormonal balance is probably not a good idea in the long run. Finasteride (propecia or proscar) and dutasteride (avodart) sort of neutralize DHT by pre-emtive action -- preventing its formation. In this particular case, the doctrine of pre-emption is probably not so bad ;0. I don't know if estradiol or flutamide are safe enough for treating MPB long term.

Cheers,
Sam