Jacob, you said that this guy wanted more people to participate in discussions on this site? I post a joke about your spamming, and then a cryptic phrase essentially saying that BMP-2 is the answer (which it is)....and it is deleted?
Oh well...I have better things to do with my time and other places to share my expertise.
See you buddy
What's the deal with this place? To Jacob
Moderator: moderators
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Jacob
- Prolific Poster
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Probably just a little misunderstanding.....someone didn't get your joke maybe?
I'm sure somebody will clear this up soon....pleeeease don't let it keep you away. Others have missed your postings at Hairsite...and since you and a few others have gotten sick of some of the posters over there..I thought this would be a good place to try.
Maybe repost it in the Experimental section? I never saw your post so I don't have a clue....
I'm sure somebody will clear this up soon....pleeeease don't let it keep you away. Others have missed your postings at Hairsite...and since you and a few others have gotten sick of some of the posters over there..I thought this would be a good place to try.
Maybe repost it in the Experimental section? I never saw your post so I don't have a clue....
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HairLossFight.com
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5001matt,
I deleted your message because I mistook you for someone else who has been posting here attacking individuals and basically spamming the site. My apologies if you were just joking, but so many people are just trying to either sell something or flame someone these days. And there have been people attacking Jacob. I deleted the message because I thought you were flaming Jacob. Seeing that I'd never seen a post from you before here I had no idea that you were kidding.
Anyway, you are still more than welcome to post here. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Regards,
Sam
I deleted your message because I mistook you for someone else who has been posting here attacking individuals and basically spamming the site. My apologies if you were just joking, but so many people are just trying to either sell something or flame someone these days. And there have been people attacking Jacob. I deleted the message because I thought you were flaming Jacob. Seeing that I'd never seen a post from you before here I had no idea that you were kidding.
Anyway, you are still more than welcome to post here. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Regards,
Sam
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5001matt
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No problem. At first I thought it was Jacob being his usual mischievous self, but then he said he didn't delete it.
I would look into BMP-2 agonists (or BMP-4 antagonists). This is what PS1 does, but that is not widely available at this point.
--Ashi-taba (it is really all one word but I guess the software thinks its something vulgar so I had to put the dash in there)
--Phenytoin
--Retinoic Acid
--Zinc L-Carnosine
I would look into BMP-2 agonists (or BMP-4 antagonists). This is what PS1 does, but that is not widely available at this point.
--Ashi-taba (it is really all one word but I guess the software thinks its something vulgar so I had to put the dash in there)
--Phenytoin
--Retinoic Acid
--Zinc L-Carnosine
-
HairLossFight.com
- Site Admin
- Posts: 1218
- Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 3:24 am
- Hair Loss Type: Androgenetic Alopecia (Male Pattern Baldness)
- Norwood Level: Norwood III Vertex
- Have you had a hair transplant?: Yes
-
5001matt
- Occasional Poster
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:27 pm
- Hair Loss Type: Don't Know
- Have you had a hair transplant?: No
Actually, you'd want a BMP-2 agonist (inducing BMP-2 inhibits BMP-4) or a BMP-4 antagonist (because inhibiting BMP-4 upregulates BMP-2). BMP-4 is elevated in balding scalps.
Minoxidil stimulates BMP-2 via the EP4 receptor....
I would use a powerful antiandrogen (topical), like Fluridil. Perhaps some Amashisho, which is available at Ancientway, this inhibits TGF-b2. These two together will likely halt MPB. Antiandrogens do not do much for regrowth, especially in areas that have been slick for years.
Regrowth is a different story, and IMO, the things I mentioned would be a good start.
UWbio is someone to be listened to (he is a poster on another site)
----------------------------
UWbio Thu Jul-24-03 04:38 AM
Member since Dec 28th 2002
240 posts Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list
#8374, "A reply from E. Fuchs!!!"
------ my e-mail ------
in your article "Stem cells in the skin: waste not, Wnt not" you mention that Bmp-4 induces Lef1 production. This seems contradictory to the idea that beta-catenin/Lef1 complex is, in part, what initiates anagen and initiation of hair follicle bud formation. If Bmp-4 is required for Lef1 production but Bmp-4 inhibits the Wnt signal then how is enough stable beta-catenin made to complex with Lef1? Also, is Bmp-4 only an inhibitor of the Wnt pathway by induction of ####kopf-1? If Bmp-4 were completely inhibited would follicle formation occur?
Any insight or answers into the intriguing biological pathways involved in hair follicle growth and miniaturization would be very much appreciated.
Thanks,
******
------ her response ------
Hi ******,
It's a bit confusing. Rudy Grosschedl in a 1996 paper showed that Bmp4 induced Lef1 in dermal mesenchyme; we showed that inhibition of Bmp4 induced Lef1 in epithelium of the skin. It may relate to the Bmp expression switching that Brigid Hogan described some years ago in early skin development.
------ discussion ------
So it seems that Bmp-4 inhibition causes upregulation of Lef1 in skin epithelium and hence any contradictions that we had are now cleared up; in the skin Bmp-4 is not good for production of Lef1 or Beta-catenin. I am almost starting to think that all we may need is a Bmp-4 inhibitor and an anti-androgen. The two should work synergistically. My guess is that by inhibiting Bmp-4 we would see a marked increase in BMP and Ephrin this is because the beta-catenin/Lef1 complex upregulates BMP and EphrinB1 and Ephrin receptor. Osteoscreen found that both BMP and Ephrin are expressed at lower amounts than in non-balding scalp and that 6-BAP can cause both to be upregulated, so we can conjecture that 6-BAP may actually be a Bmp-4 inhibitor of some sort.
getting closer and closer to the truth.
---------------
Here's an interesting study:
Noggin is a mesenchymally derived stimulator of hair-follicle induction
Botchkarev, VA;Botchkareva, NV;Roth, W;Nakamura, M;Chen, LH;Herzog, W;Lindner, G;McMahon, JA;Peters, C;Lauster, R;McMahon, AP;Paus, R
NATURE CELL BIOLOGY
1: (3) 158-164 JUL 1999
Document type: Article Language: English
Abstract:
The induction of developmental structures derived from the ectoderm, such as the neural tube or tooth, occurs through neutralization of the inhibitory activity of members of the bone-morphogenetic protein (BMP) family by BMP antagonists. Here we show that, during hair-follicle development, the neural inducer and BMP-neutralizing protein Noggin is expressed in the follicular mesenchyme, that noggin-knockout mice show significant retardation of hair-follicle induction, and that Noggin neutralizes the inhibitory action of BMP-4 and stimulates hair-follicle induction in embryonic skin organ culture. As a crucial mesenchymal signal that stimulates hair-follicle induction, Noggin operates through antagonistic interactions with BMP-4, which result in upregulation of the transcription factor Lef-1 and the cell-adhesion molecule NCAM, as well as through BMP4-independent downregulation of the 75 kD neurotrophin receptor in the developing hair follicle.
-------
[/b]
Minoxidil stimulates BMP-2 via the EP4 receptor....
I would use a powerful antiandrogen (topical), like Fluridil. Perhaps some Amashisho, which is available at Ancientway, this inhibits TGF-b2. These two together will likely halt MPB. Antiandrogens do not do much for regrowth, especially in areas that have been slick for years.
Regrowth is a different story, and IMO, the things I mentioned would be a good start.
UWbio is someone to be listened to (he is a poster on another site)
----------------------------
UWbio Thu Jul-24-03 04:38 AM
Member since Dec 28th 2002
240 posts Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list
#8374, "A reply from E. Fuchs!!!"
------ my e-mail ------
in your article "Stem cells in the skin: waste not, Wnt not" you mention that Bmp-4 induces Lef1 production. This seems contradictory to the idea that beta-catenin/Lef1 complex is, in part, what initiates anagen and initiation of hair follicle bud formation. If Bmp-4 is required for Lef1 production but Bmp-4 inhibits the Wnt signal then how is enough stable beta-catenin made to complex with Lef1? Also, is Bmp-4 only an inhibitor of the Wnt pathway by induction of ####kopf-1? If Bmp-4 were completely inhibited would follicle formation occur?
Any insight or answers into the intriguing biological pathways involved in hair follicle growth and miniaturization would be very much appreciated.
Thanks,
******
------ her response ------
Hi ******,
It's a bit confusing. Rudy Grosschedl in a 1996 paper showed that Bmp4 induced Lef1 in dermal mesenchyme; we showed that inhibition of Bmp4 induced Lef1 in epithelium of the skin. It may relate to the Bmp expression switching that Brigid Hogan described some years ago in early skin development.
------ discussion ------
So it seems that Bmp-4 inhibition causes upregulation of Lef1 in skin epithelium and hence any contradictions that we had are now cleared up; in the skin Bmp-4 is not good for production of Lef1 or Beta-catenin. I am almost starting to think that all we may need is a Bmp-4 inhibitor and an anti-androgen. The two should work synergistically. My guess is that by inhibiting Bmp-4 we would see a marked increase in BMP and Ephrin this is because the beta-catenin/Lef1 complex upregulates BMP and EphrinB1 and Ephrin receptor. Osteoscreen found that both BMP and Ephrin are expressed at lower amounts than in non-balding scalp and that 6-BAP can cause both to be upregulated, so we can conjecture that 6-BAP may actually be a Bmp-4 inhibitor of some sort.
getting closer and closer to the truth.
---------------
Here's an interesting study:
Noggin is a mesenchymally derived stimulator of hair-follicle induction
Botchkarev, VA;Botchkareva, NV;Roth, W;Nakamura, M;Chen, LH;Herzog, W;Lindner, G;McMahon, JA;Peters, C;Lauster, R;McMahon, AP;Paus, R
NATURE CELL BIOLOGY
1: (3) 158-164 JUL 1999
Document type: Article Language: English
Abstract:
The induction of developmental structures derived from the ectoderm, such as the neural tube or tooth, occurs through neutralization of the inhibitory activity of members of the bone-morphogenetic protein (BMP) family by BMP antagonists. Here we show that, during hair-follicle development, the neural inducer and BMP-neutralizing protein Noggin is expressed in the follicular mesenchyme, that noggin-knockout mice show significant retardation of hair-follicle induction, and that Noggin neutralizes the inhibitory action of BMP-4 and stimulates hair-follicle induction in embryonic skin organ culture. As a crucial mesenchymal signal that stimulates hair-follicle induction, Noggin operates through antagonistic interactions with BMP-4, which result in upregulation of the transcription factor Lef-1 and the cell-adhesion molecule NCAM, as well as through BMP4-independent downregulation of the 75 kD neurotrophin receptor in the developing hair follicle.
-------
[/b]