Thinning Galea + Blood Flow?
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Thinning Galea + Blood Flow?
Hello everybody,
I have recently been trying to figure out the physical changes that occur to the scalp as a result of MPB. I have read several conflicting reports about various things, including some that say the blood flow through a balding scalp is drastically lower than through a non balding scalp.
Another thing I have read is that the galea thins in balding, but not in non balding.
Does anyone have legit information about either of these things? Have any actual studies been done to determine this stuff?
I have recently been trying to figure out the physical changes that occur to the scalp as a result of MPB. I have read several conflicting reports about various things, including some that say the blood flow through a balding scalp is drastically lower than through a non balding scalp.
Another thing I have read is that the galea thins in balding, but not in non balding.
Does anyone have legit information about either of these things? Have any actual studies been done to determine this stuff?
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Re: Thinning Galea + Blood Flow?
You've probably seen this, and it doesn't necessary mention the THINNING of the galea, but it has to do with blood flow and being inelastic:
http://www.hairloss-reversible.com/male ... ldness.htm
Here is that booklet:
http://www.amazon.com/Stop-Hair-Loss-Pa ... 93&sr=8-10
Here's another blurb:
http://www.emusingsecrets.com/hairloss.html
This is the problem with "pre-internet" theories -even ones that could be viable. If they didn't fit the current model of thinking over the past 15 years or so since the internet has been mainstream, they didn't really "make the cut". No one took the time to put the info up there!
-O.M.G.
http://www.hairloss-reversible.com/male ... ldness.htm
I'm completely ignoring the word "thick" in that, though, because I think he probably means "stiff" or something. Anyway, there just ISN'T a lot of information on that out there. What I can't seem to find is that whether or not the surgeries he did -which were laughed at by some- were SUCCESSFUL.An old theory about the cause of male pattern baldness, proposed by Dr. Lars Engstrand of Sweden, was the tight scalp or more properly the tight galea theory. The galea is the flat, thin, fibrous membrane covering the crown of the head. It's about forty square inches in area. According to Dr. Engstrand, after males reach puberty, the galea tends to become thick and inelastic because of the influence of the male hormone testosterone.
Supposedly a thick and inelastic galea constricts the blood vessels that nourish the hair follicles. When this happens the follicles shrink and cease to produce a healthy hair. Engstrand performed a chilling surgical procedure to ease scalp and galea tension. A similar procedure is still being performed in Europe today.
The doctor's theory is espoused in a booklet by Paavo Airola that is sold even today in many health food stores. Please buy this booklet if you want to be thoroughly confused. (On the right is a current likeness of Dr. Lars Engstrand.)
There are some weaknesses in the tight scalp theory--in fact, many weaknesses. But there is also some plausibility because a positive correlation exists between a tight scalp and hair loss. But correlation does not necessarily mean causation. For example, there does seem to be a positive correlation between the length of a man's marriage and the loss of his hair. The problem is that one doesn't necessarily cause the other. Or then again maybe it does.
Here is that booklet:
http://www.amazon.com/Stop-Hair-Loss-Pa ... 93&sr=8-10
Here's another blurb:
http://www.emusingsecrets.com/hairloss.html
Ok, so it looks like this is an old theory that just sort of got drummed out, and hasn't really been picked back up. I hate to get conspiritorial and crazy here again, but remember when Hairmax came out and it gave a HORRIBLE NAME to laser therapy for baldness? Hairmax turned laser therapy into a laughing stock, and it caused people to walk away from an extremely viable treatment. I'm wondering if the current DHT theories that were really convenient to Merck sort of "pushed away" talk of this galea theory. You go to some forums and talk about this, and people will rip you up for it -when there is STILL decent anecdotal evidence that there is a link, and people still go bald on Propecia. So, I don't think the criticisms are completely justified. Maybe it's up to us to resurrect this a bit, and tweak it to include some of the new discoveries.What is the real reason for losing ones hair?
This is a very debatable question, depending on which self proclaimed expert you want to listen to, you can get several answers. Here are some of the more common theories that I respect and that make sense to me. There are many others too ridiculous to even bother mentioning.
According to Dr. Engstrand, baldness is caused by pressure on the capillaries (tiny blood vessels) of the scalp by a thickened tendinous membrane. This tendinous membrane, the galea, is located on the crown of the head, and covers an area approximately 40 square inches. Starting at the lower forehead and going back and on the side to approximate line where typical complete baldness stops. When the galea becomes thick, it increases the pressure and tension on the scalp, thus impairing the blood circulation in the capillaries which, among other functions, feed the hair root, pappilla and hair bulb with nutrients necessary for hair growth.
Dr Lars Engstrand is no longer living, but was a highly reputable scientist and an Associate Professor of Surgery at the famous Karolinski Institute in Stockholm, Sweden. This theory would explain why (as stated in hair loss problem? above) almost all of my clients scalps were stretched tight and taunt.
This is the problem with "pre-internet" theories -even ones that could be viable. If they didn't fit the current model of thinking over the past 15 years or so since the internet has been mainstream, they didn't really "make the cut". No one took the time to put the info up there!
-O.M.G.
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Re: Thinning Galea + Blood Flow?
Hey perga. Ive just started a thread on subcutaneous fat (the layer off fat in the scalp which also decreases with mpb).
Ive also got togethor a heaps of info from other threads to make up a treatments plan that im using to rebuild the layer off fat and also break down fibrosis etc).
Heres the link..
http://www.hairlossfight.com/forums/vie ... f=9&t=1264
Its not exactly what your talking about with the galea BUT... If your wondering about how the thickness of the non mpb skin compared to the mpb area differs than you should be intrested.
Ive also got togethor a heaps of info from other threads to make up a treatments plan that im using to rebuild the layer off fat and also break down fibrosis etc).
Heres the link..
http://www.hairlossfight.com/forums/vie ... f=9&t=1264
Its not exactly what your talking about with the galea BUT... If your wondering about how the thickness of the non mpb skin compared to the mpb area differs than you should be intrested.
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Re: Thinning Galea + Blood Flow?
You know what, I think there is something to this.
On my fathers head, there is an OBVIOUS difference between his forehead, and where he used to have hair. If he scrunches his forehead you can see his old hairline, because that skin doesn't move at all.
Also, the difference between my scalp in my donor area and the top of my head is DRASTICALLY different under the microscope. I'll post some shots of it later tonight, but it's crazy. I can see the blood vessels pumped up on the donor, but the top looks like a corpses' head.
I'm not sure what a non balding males head looks like, since every damned male I know is going bald, but I'd bet it is good flow everywhere.
On my fathers head, there is an OBVIOUS difference between his forehead, and where he used to have hair. If he scrunches his forehead you can see his old hairline, because that skin doesn't move at all.
Also, the difference between my scalp in my donor area and the top of my head is DRASTICALLY different under the microscope. I'll post some shots of it later tonight, but it's crazy. I can see the blood vessels pumped up on the donor, but the top looks like a corpses' head.
I'm not sure what a non balding males head looks like, since every damned male I know is going bald, but I'd bet it is good flow everywhere.
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Re: Thinning Galea + Blood Flow?
I believe that improving blood flow to the scalp accelerates male pattern baldness. Everytime I even mention this I'm practically castrated!
I once read a story (I forgot to bookmark it) about a balding guy who suffered a nasty scalp laceration due to an automobile accident. The result was that blood flow to half of his scalp was permanently reduced. The end result was some of his hair grew back..... on the side with the reduced blood flow!
In Belgium there are surgeons and hairclinics who are offering galeatomie and 'onderbinding'(blood breaches above the ears will be burned, so less blood supply to the head will be the consequence) to the treatment as a solution against hairloss. Belgium is not exactly a third world country. They are a nation of rules and laws. If this type of surgery is allowed then it would seem to me there would be proof of efficacy. Even Dr Proctor has commented that he suspects this surgery probably works.
Dr Lee has said many times that increasing blood flow to the scalp will not in any way help with male pattern baldness. But I've never read where it could actually make matters worse.
To my feeble mind, increasing blood flow simply promotes inflammation. Why does applying ice reduce inflammation? Because it reduces blood flow to the area.
I once read a story (I forgot to bookmark it) about a balding guy who suffered a nasty scalp laceration due to an automobile accident. The result was that blood flow to half of his scalp was permanently reduced. The end result was some of his hair grew back..... on the side with the reduced blood flow!
In Belgium there are surgeons and hairclinics who are offering galeatomie and 'onderbinding'(blood breaches above the ears will be burned, so less blood supply to the head will be the consequence) to the treatment as a solution against hairloss. Belgium is not exactly a third world country. They are a nation of rules and laws. If this type of surgery is allowed then it would seem to me there would be proof of efficacy. Even Dr Proctor has commented that he suspects this surgery probably works.
Dr Lee has said many times that increasing blood flow to the scalp will not in any way help with male pattern baldness. But I've never read where it could actually make matters worse.
To my feeble mind, increasing blood flow simply promotes inflammation. Why does applying ice reduce inflammation? Because it reduces blood flow to the area.
Last edited by zixcreator on Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thinning Galea + Blood Flow?
Interesting post, Zix. I'd probably have to stick the "blood flow is good" crowd, though. I guess my logic is that it's known that follicles die when deprived of their blood supply. I suppose I could maybe see a reduced blood supply slowing down hairloss in that there would theoretically be a reduction in the amount of serum DHT reaching the follicles... but then you would think that an already atrophied follicle would need all the blood flow it could get. I guess we'd have to somehow figure out how much blood is required to reach the follicle to sustain normal functioning.... who knows...
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Re: Thinning Galea + Blood Flow?
Perhaps we could get some more opinions on blood flow and hair loss.
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Re: Thinning Galea + Blood Flow?
Here's another interesting study.
http://www.prostateline.com/CongressRep ... Id=5740743
Especially this paragraph:
I continue to believe that treatments to increase blood flow to the scalp and follicles are a bad idea.
http://www.prostateline.com/CongressRep ... Id=5740743
Especially this paragraph:
This is how my feeble mind interprets this. Vasulature is a glorified way of saying blood flow. In the above paragraph destroying blood flow leads to silencing androgen receptors.Another potential intervention involves destroying the prostate vasculature. Researchers have recently shown that within prostate tissue, the androgen receptor is predominantly expressed on prostate endothelial cells. Moreover, androgen receptor signaling appears to play a key role in prostate endothelial cell homeostasis. [10] Therefore, using therapies that specifically target and destroy prostate vascular endothelial cells might be an effective method for silencing androgen receptor signaling within the prostate.
I continue to believe that treatments to increase blood flow to the scalp and follicles are a bad idea.
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Re: Thinning Galea + Blood Flow?
I think of MPB similiar to the bold quote at the bottom of this quote. I'm not saying MPB is an infection of the scalp but just that with MPB your body is walling off the area for one reason or another
"Possible Benefits From NCD In Arteriosclerosis
There are several important concepts regarding the initiation of arteriosclerosis. One of these is that arteriosclerosis results from the infiltration of the endothelial lining of the arteries with toxic heavy metals. The inner lining of the artery is the site where the important vasodilator substance nitric acid is created.
The endothelium also produces prostacyclin which decreases clotting of blood and causes dilating of arteries. A third important endothelial substance is heparin, a potent substance that prevents clots from forming. Excessive deposition of heavy metals in the endothelium diminishes the endothelium’s ability to produce valuable nitric oxide, prostacyclin and heparin. Removal of these toxic metals restores the endothelium’s ability to produce these vital substances which stops and may even reverse arteriosclerosis.
Inflammatory reactions in the body (often related to infections such as gingivitis, pneumonia, viral infections etc.) can be a stimulus for arteriosclerotic plaques to suddenly develop. Bacteria and viruses have been transported from these inflammatory sites to the endothelial lining of arteries. .Careful studies of persons suffering strokes and heart attacks has revealed that up to 25 or 30 % of these persons have a history of an infectious disease in the several days preceding the vascular event.
Experts in the field of gum disease have warned that there is mountain of evidence that there is an unusually high rate of gingivitis in persons developing heart attacks and strokes. Therapy that heals gingivitis (Oral Guard) could protect many patients from having heart attacks and strokes.
Signs of inflammation such as elevated levels of CRP and sedimentation rates are a valuable clue that artery narrowing and related vascular occlusion is a strong possibility. The body reacts to infectious processes by walling off the area of infection. The blood in these sites becomes sludgy with poor blood flow. Plaque formation becomes accelerated in these sites of impaired oxygen delivery. "
http://www.letstalkdetox.com/index.php? ... 32&catid=6
"Possible Benefits From NCD In Arteriosclerosis
There are several important concepts regarding the initiation of arteriosclerosis. One of these is that arteriosclerosis results from the infiltration of the endothelial lining of the arteries with toxic heavy metals. The inner lining of the artery is the site where the important vasodilator substance nitric acid is created.
The endothelium also produces prostacyclin which decreases clotting of blood and causes dilating of arteries. A third important endothelial substance is heparin, a potent substance that prevents clots from forming. Excessive deposition of heavy metals in the endothelium diminishes the endothelium’s ability to produce valuable nitric oxide, prostacyclin and heparin. Removal of these toxic metals restores the endothelium’s ability to produce these vital substances which stops and may even reverse arteriosclerosis.
Inflammatory reactions in the body (often related to infections such as gingivitis, pneumonia, viral infections etc.) can be a stimulus for arteriosclerotic plaques to suddenly develop. Bacteria and viruses have been transported from these inflammatory sites to the endothelial lining of arteries. .Careful studies of persons suffering strokes and heart attacks has revealed that up to 25 or 30 % of these persons have a history of an infectious disease in the several days preceding the vascular event.
Experts in the field of gum disease have warned that there is mountain of evidence that there is an unusually high rate of gingivitis in persons developing heart attacks and strokes. Therapy that heals gingivitis (Oral Guard) could protect many patients from having heart attacks and strokes.
Signs of inflammation such as elevated levels of CRP and sedimentation rates are a valuable clue that artery narrowing and related vascular occlusion is a strong possibility. The body reacts to infectious processes by walling off the area of infection. The blood in these sites becomes sludgy with poor blood flow. Plaque formation becomes accelerated in these sites of impaired oxygen delivery. "
http://www.letstalkdetox.com/index.php? ... 32&catid=6
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Re: Thinning Galea + Blood Flow?
jdp710 wrote:I think of MPB similiar to the bold quote at the bottom of this quote. I'm not saying MPB is an infection of the scalp but just that with MPB your body is walling off the area for one reason or another
"Possible Benefits From NCD In Arteriosclerosis
There are several important concepts regarding the initiation of arteriosclerosis. One of these is that arteriosclerosis results from the infiltration of the endothelial lining of the arteries with toxic heavy metals. The inner lining of the artery is the site where the important vasodilator substance nitric acid is created.
The endothelium also produces prostacyclin which decreases clotting of blood and causes dilating of arteries. A third important endothelial substance is heparin, a potent substance that prevents clots from forming. Excessive deposition of heavy metals in the endothelium diminishes the endothelium’s ability to produce valuable nitric oxide, prostacyclin and heparin. Removal of these toxic metals restores the endothelium’s ability to produce these vital substances which stops and may even reverse arteriosclerosis.
Inflammatory reactions in the body (often related to infections such as gingivitis, pneumonia, viral infections etc.) can be a stimulus for arteriosclerotic plaques to suddenly develop. Bacteria and viruses have been transported from these inflammatory sites to the endothelial lining of arteries. .Careful studies of persons suffering strokes and heart attacks has revealed that up to 25 or 30 % of these persons have a history of an infectious disease in the several days preceding the vascular event.
Experts in the field of gum disease have warned that there is mountain of evidence that there is an unusually high rate of gingivitis in persons developing heart attacks and strokes. Therapy that heals gingivitis (Oral Guard) could protect many patients from having heart attacks and strokes.
Signs of inflammation such as elevated levels of CRP and sedimentation rates are a valuable clue that artery narrowing and related vascular occlusion is a strong possibility. The body reacts to infectious processes by walling off the area of infection. The blood in these sites becomes sludgy with poor blood flow. Plaque formation becomes accelerated in these sites of impaired oxygen delivery. "
http://www.letstalkdetox.com/index.php? ... 32&catid=6
Mercury and bacteria can have bad systemic effects over time. A detox once in a while should help and yes keeping your oral cavity clean of all these nasties will help. Xylitol should help gums !
Regards
Pete
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Re: Thinning Galea + Blood Flow?
Hmmm.... If there is something going on in the Galea that somehow is correlated with MPB, then why is it that hair transplanted into this area from the non-MPB effected areas of the scalp manages to survive no problem?
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Re: Thinning Galea + Blood Flow?
because it's not a genetically inferior to the hair in the front.
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Re: Thinning Galea + Blood Flow?
But that's exactly what my point is. If it's the hairs themselves in the MPB-prone areas that are genetically inferior, then it has nothing to do with the skin or location in which the hair is.
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Re: Thinning Galea + Blood Flow?
The hair transplanted from the back to the front is genetically superior and not affected by blood flow issues.
But again I believe increased blood flow accelerates hair loss (in gentically challenged follicles). Decreased blood flow slows hair loss. We should stop assuming that improving blood flow is a good thing. It is a BAD THING! (in my humble opinion)
But again I believe increased blood flow accelerates hair loss (in gentically challenged follicles). Decreased blood flow slows hair loss. We should stop assuming that improving blood flow is a good thing. It is a BAD THING! (in my humble opinion)
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Re: Thinning Galea + Blood Flow?
zixcreator wrote:The hair transplanted from the back to the front is genetically superior and not affected by blood flow issues.
But again I believe increased blood flow accelerates hair loss (in gentically challenged follicles). Decreased blood flow slows hair loss. We should stop assuming that improving blood flow is a good thing. It is a BAD THING! (in my humble opinion)
Topically the way forward has to be to reduce the immune response which should help hairloss and whilst the immune response has being lowered - bloodflow can be enhanced to site.
Elsoms Terminal 1 and 2 has a couple of ingredients that does this.
Regards
Pete
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