IGNITE SHAMPOO 6 month supply trial

Rye · Post by **Rye** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:52 pm

Hey guys,...i've already posted this on regrowth.com but not sure where everyone's preferred forum is so...

For all others who are interested in the ingredients i will give you a sample of the stuff that makes this stuff KICK!!! Mustard oil, emu oil, avocado oil, capsaicum, polysorbate 80, triple tea complex (red,green & white), soy protein, and piroctone olamine.

Those are just some of the ingredients of the combo --- keep in mind the actual ingredients although important are not as important as the concentrations and ratios.

I will be starting to formulate in mid August so if you want a 6 month supply let me know by email rc030281@gmail.com by Aug. 1, 09...for those interested i would ask that you supply me a before picture, and a monthly update picture so i can track progress. Please use the style of my photo, use the same lighting in each (preferably the same room and time of day!)...as well some history (current regime, if you are stopping or continuing your current regime), type of hair loss (diffuse, norwood x, etc.), and age.

See the post here of the 1 year results from the combo...if you haven't already.

http://www.hairlossfight.com/forums/vie ... f=8&t=1235

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:27 pm

For those wondering..it's free, right?

This reminds me of a custom topical I had Elsom make for me: Apple peel..bilberry..dragon's blood...mustard seed oil..essential oil of rosemary..copper phospholipids..zinc oxide..idebenone..luteolin..and spin traps. Well..the mustard oil reminded me of it

goten574 · Post by **goten574** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:44 pm

Jacob wrote:For those wondering..it's free, right?

This reminds me of a custom topical I had Elsom make for me: Apple peel..bilberry..dragon's blood...mustard seed oil..essential oil of rosemary..copper phospholipids..zinc oxide..idebenone..luteolin..and spin traps. Well..the mustard oil reminded me of it

Free? I seriously doubt it

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:32 am

Well it does say "trial".

I'm seriously considering those ingreds I had in my Elsom custom along with the apple stems cells if they become available. Minus the bilberry and zinc oxide..maybe add royal jelly and/or

nidhogge · Post by **nidhogge** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:32 pm

Jacob,

This is Rye working out of his home to formulate. The trial regarding HairGen is being produced by Primordial Performance and distributed by them, which is why it is free to participate. Rye isn't profiting off of this--the labor is free. What you'll be paying for is ingredients.

Rye, post up that before/after picture for people to see.

Everyone else--

Should folks get good results with the product, Primordial Performance will pick it up and distribute it and, naturally, it will be cheaper since ingredients will be bought in bulk. I will be using this as well during the trial.

TheFunkyStumpfighter · Post by **TheFunkyStumpfighter** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:01 pm

Man, Id really love to trial this stuff. Having seb derm as bad as I do, itd me a miracle if it thickened my hair, and another selling point if it cleared up the dry scalp.

Thing is, though, is that if its gonna cost more to trial it than it would to buy it if it were picked up by PP, that doesnt seem fair. Labor aside (and Im sure theres a fair amount of labor involved), paying full cost would mean that the bulk of the financial risk is on the people trialing it. If it does end up working, and it gets picked up based on the trialist results, then the trialists will have ended up paying more for a product that they helped bring to market than the people using it afterward.

I get that you cant just hand the stuff out for free, but at the kind of price hes mentioned (was it 360$? Ill go back and look), trialists stand to lose a lot, and Rye stands to lose only the time and energy it costs to actually make the stuff. If anything, the financial risk should at least be shared evenly. His pics are impressive, obviously, but if theyre the sole reason why people should pay that much to trial something, then why didnt PP just pick it up after seeing them? If PP doesnt want to risk investing time and money into this shampoo combo based on Rye's picture, why should anyone on a forum do so? The burden on proof is on him.

Maybe Im bitter about not being able to afford this stuff, because Id really do anything to replace my Nizoral/Nioxin combo with something that actually works. Hopefully the more wealthy among us see results, as this combo would be much more convenient than what Im using now if it does ends up working.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:28 pm

TheFunkyStumpfighter ...I'm no longer commenting on pics..and I'm all for trying new things...but I don't get the excitement over one set of pictures. The ingreds..so far..are all things many of us have tried or are still using. So not sure why you'd be so down if you couldn't afford it..since there are so many other things out there to try.

What HAVE you all used so far?

TheFunkyStumpfighter · Post by **TheFunkyStumpfighter** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:50 pm

Thats just why Im so down to trial it, because I cant afford it. I do surveys and %&$! for a lot of sites, and I get to trial tons of stuff to trial. New razors, granola bars, a PDA, drink mix, and I just got a free box of a new cereal coming out yesterday. Hell, I was even given a free coffee maker and 2 months worth of premium coffee to trial, and I was paid 150 bean for it. Typically, thats what a trial is. If the trial for this shampoo combo was like HairGen trial, Id put myself up for it in a second, because if it worked to give me a healthier scalp, you could claim much more than hair growth. Id want to trial it for the same reason I wish I could trial HairGen: because itd be 6 months of free hair yumyums. If it ended up working, I wouldnt have to gamble my money on something that may or may not work when I continue to use it, and if it didnt work, the only thing Idve lost was 6 months treatment time on something else that may not work (that I wouldve had to have paid for).

Im not trying anything else for the same reason Im not trying this: stuff is #$%! expensive. If I had the cash to hit up the formulator every month or two, Id be on it like cheetah on a baby gazelle with a gimp leg. Hell, with the results Ive seen with the AGHC, Id love to be able to order 4 sets of it, and use it for 6 months straight.

Outside of that, its a shampoo combo, and how many shampoos out there actually claim results like in his pic? I understand that getting excited over a single pic is foolish, but its enough to at least grant the benefit of the doubt. In the end, though, charging so much for a trial of something based on a single picture and the word of someone seems a bit much, and while I would love to trial this stuff, theres just no way id spend enough money to add 125 diodes to my helmet on something that we know so little about.

For the sake of my hair, though, I hope the people who can afford to trial it see amazing results, that way the rest of us can get our hands on it cheap. If it doesnt work so well, well, we all know what happens when people spend a ton of money on something that ends up not living up to their expectations.

goten574 · Post by **goten574** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:58 pm

Yeah, price is a real concern. If I knew it would work (or had a high chance of working) I'd pay ALOT for it, but just 1 picture... not enough.

Anxious1 · Post by **Anxious1** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:24 pm

i would love to try it, and i probably could spend that much money on it, but it would just be pointless, im still finishing my 12 month trial of yuda pilatory, ive just started with scalpure, beta sitosterol, hoo shou wu, and mens stock ginseng biotin repair, this shampoo would be perfect for me to try , but all of these things if they work well, are probably going to cause shedding, and i can only handle so much shedding, and i want to be able to gauge wats going on , and i wont be able to do this if i try to many products simultaneously.

but i hope someone else trys it, and it gets picked up, made cheaper, and becomes a excellent treatment, good luck rye.

nidhogge · Post by **nidhogge** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:22 am

Funky,

I'm a straight-forward dude, and I'm going to tell you right now that your posts really didn't sit well with me.

Rye had no intention of making anything for any of you.

Read that again. ^^

I posted a thread on Regrowth a few weeks ago just giving people an update saying that we're working on a HairGen Shampoo and pre-shampoo as well, and that Primordial Performance would be supplying Rye with what he'll need to make a 6-month supply for me to test, and enough to get them a sample as well. I e-mailed Rye and asked him to post on the thread, and he did, and informed people that he did take before and after photos as well. So, he showed them, and then people started REQUESTING that he make them batches. He had a few requests, so he decided to just give people an e-mail address and a deadline if they are interested, and then take it from there.

If you want to wait for Primordial to sell the shampoo then by all means, do so. But, $360 over 6 months is pretty damned cheap as is, and you're wrong Jacob. I've showed you the ingredient list in the past Jacob, and nothing to date has had ALL of these ingredients together with no chemicals, and more importantly, at the proper ratios. Rye has painstakingly tweaked this formulation for well over a year to get it just right. Being a formulator myself, it's quite obnoxious to hear people announce that they can simply reproduce, out-of-their-home, natural herbal products on the market when they have NO idea what the proper quantities for each ingredient should be.

Should it be .01 TW % or 1.0 TW %? .03 or .09? It's the specific quantities of each component in the formulation that make it effective.

TheFunkyStumpfighter · Post by **TheFunkyStumpfighter** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:04 pm

Straight forward is hardly a bad thing, Nid, which is why I was straight forward with my posts. If you think Im implying anything that I didnt outright say, youre wrong. Everything I said, as far as I know based on what Rye has said, and what you have said, is correct, no? Im not attacking the guy or his product, Im just saying that thats a lot of faith to put in something you dont know much of anything about. If thats being unreasonable, feel free to tell me. This is the internet, man. If you cant be straight forward to the Xth degree here, then you probably dont have a straight forward bone in your body, and I dont imply things when I can say them outright.

Besides, its like I said, I hope this stuff works, plain and simple. I hope enough people who arent using much else can afford to try it to gauge its relative efficiency, and considering I am not one of those people, Ill keep my nose out of it. Itll be good to leave before the conspiracies start flying anyway $\:D/$

kamui · Post by **kamui** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:39 pm

Wait $360 for 6 months? Damnnn I would try it if I didn't throw away $400 at AGHC...

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:00 pm

nidhogge wrote:

If you want to wait for Primordial to sell the shampoo then by all means, do so. But, $360 over 6 months is pretty damned cheap as is, and you're wrong Jacob. I've showed you the ingredient list in the past Jacob, and nothing to date has had ALL of these ingredients together with no chemicals, and more importantly, at the proper ratios. Rye has painstakingly tweaked this formulation for well over a year to get it just right. Being a formulator myself, it's quite obnoxious to hear people announce that they can simply reproduce, out-of-their-home, natural herbal products on the market when they have NO idea what the proper quantities for each ingredient should be.

Should it be .01 TW % or 1.0 TW %? .03 or .09? It's the specific quantities of each component in the formulation that make it effective.

Which is what makes this SMELL. Tinkering with something for a year on one fricken person is ludicrous. All that time he's "tinkering"..and then VOILA! He THEN gets the results he's been hoping for. The correct %'s of each stinkin' ingredient. And of course they'd never work unless they were all used at the same time! All the time prior to this- the tinkered-with topical hasn't been helping to get those supposed results? Give me a break.

This is starting to smell like a Primordial spam fest. It's stuff like this that has got to have Sandman going nuts. Yes, Nid..you did send me the list. I told you back then that I had no desire to spend that kind of money on something like this. I also suggested Elsom Research(which, btw..for $360 I'd be willing to bet one could get a custom combo like this done by them- that would last 6 months. If you're really serious about trying it out first before actually selling it *wink wink*). But it always comes back to Primordial. Even after all the other companies/options I sent to you besides Elsom. This "pre-shampoo"..Shampoo...Conditioner..is also strange. Yeah, I know..he's been tinkering with it for a whole year!

Anxious1 · Post by **Anxious1** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:24 am

hey, did u guys see the same thread on regrowth.com, the hairgen shampoo thread, where someone says the before picture has the temples bleached, and the after picture doesnt?

im not saying i believe it, but it does kinda look that way. so this is on one hand, on the other hand, rye is nidhogdes friend, and nidhodge is pretty trustworthy, just wondering wat u guys think about this?

OverMachoGrande · Post by **OverMachoGrande** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:55 am

Anxious1...

Without having ever spoken to Rye in real life or even exchanged a couple of posts with him, I can say that's definitely because of "camera washout". I just looked at them on this thread: http://www.hairlossfight.com/forums/vie ... f=8&t=1235

All the thinner hairs reflect a lot of light, and the digital camera can't handle that and it "bleeds over" into the surrounding area.

I know I've posted this adnauseum, but here is this video:

"Education about before/after pictures -in particular about the shortcomings of digital cameras..."

When my hairs so that, they simply blend into my pale, white skin and "disappear". With his darker complexion, I can totally see how his would look "bleached" for the same reasons!

This is the reason why OUR before/after pictures don't resemble those amazing before/after pictures in the Sunetics thread, other professional sites, etc. It's so frustrating for the forum poster, too, and I'm surprised that no one has addressed this before in the 10+ years of forum history! My guess is because there were not too many people that actually had results with pre-existing treatments of any significant amount, so it was never even thought about as an issue.

-O.M.G.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:36 am

That's a good excuse..but it's not "washing" with me.

All the hairs on the side can not be that much thinner. And there should be plenty like that in the "after"...

But actually..I guess any "results" there could be what you're referring to then.

Oops..I'm not talking about pics :-&

OverMachoGrande · Post by **OverMachoGrande** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:22 am

Jacob wrote:That's a good excuse..but it's not "washing" with me. All the hairs on the side can not be that much thinner. And there should be plenty like that in the "after"...

But actually..I guess any "results" there could be what you're referring to then.

Oops..I'm not talking about pics :-&

Well, I'm sorry you aren't properly observing what happens with any handheld digital camera. It only needs to be slightly thinner and it happens because your camera can't handle the contrast range. A close up of the temples would have solved this better -less total contrast to disperse over one image- but it's too late for that now (unless maybe he has one). You could go test this out yourself and you can easily see what I mean -meaning get a digital camera, take a picture in bright lights, then put the picture on your computer. This is something you have to have experience with to really understand what I'm talking about.

Frankly for someone to "bleach" their temples is ridiculous -I mean that's laughable to say that someone would even think about doing that, and I don't know who originally said that but they need to be made fun of- so therefore there is another explanation for what you are seeing. I explained what that reason is, so you can believe it or not, whatever... I think most people would agree with me that the reason is the CAMERA, not because he's bleaching his temples (my god, that's just retarded) or doing anything else like that. You can even look at the temples and see that they are excessively washed out.

There's just no conflict here about what is going on.

glaxom · Post by **glaxom** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:08 am

Everytime i see Primordial Performance i think Scam. Why?

3 or so years ago i used to visit Elite Fitness.com, well they started selling fake steroids and some of the young guys who bought the stuff were young soldiers going to iraq or afghanistan. They where hoping to come back(hopefully) from war looking good for their wives or girls. A bunch of us had a fit and posted our disgust with the site for ripping off soldiers who were putting their lives on the line. Truly Disgusting....

Then very quickly..... a couple or more of the older, straight shooting mods who protested against the fake steroid selling were let go. Guess who quickly came right in and all the sudden their products were heavily pushed(private emails,etc. the whole 9yds) by the site owner and his new shill mod(sound familiar?) as the next miracle.........yep, P.P. products.

As far as i'm concerned anybody that is so heavily tied in and associates their bizness with a scam and shill driven site that preys on very young gullible males wanting muscles opens itself up to serious questions about their credibility.

They still advertise there and yes the site still pushes fake steroids and a lot of other dubious products to unsuspecting kids.

What's the old saying about laying down with dogs?

nidhogge · Post by **nidhogge** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:00 am

Glaxom--

Primordial is known within the bodybuilding community to be one of the most respectable supplement sites around. All of their products are heavily researched, their customer service is amazing, and they don't sell any anabolic steroids outside of topical 1-T and 1-Tren. I've done a Tren cycle, and the sides are minimal (temporary gyno), it's a fantastic product. For you to be even considering anything that Jacob of all people has to say regarding other companies, Mr. Conspiracy nut himself...c'mon man. If you have an issue where Primordial takes out advertising, then I suggest you give them a call and speak directly to Eric the President. He's a great guy and if you can give him a good reason to pull the advertising, then I'm sure he will.

However, to associate a bad forum or whatever with PP is just absurd. Btw, PP has been around for a year or so I believe...so are you sure you're not getting confused?

Regarding Jacob thinking Rye bleached his temples--LOL. People, Jacob isn't that stupid--he's trying to cause a %&$! storm as usual.

glaxom · Post by **glaxom** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:49 pm

Nidhogge said.....................

......"""Primordial is known within the bodybuilding community to be one of the most respectable supplement sites around. All of their products are heavily researched, their customer service is amazing, and they don't sell any anabolic steroids outside of topical 1-T and 1-Tren. I've done a Tren cycle, and the sides are minimal (temporary gyno), it's a fantastic product."""

Oh really , that's a very broad statement since there are literally hundreds and hundreds of supplements out there for bodybuilding. Anybody can say they are one of the most respected..............You can find similar products for a whole lot less costs that do the same thing ........They give you a temporary strength and size boost untill you stop taking it. I've been lifting weights about as long as you've been alive and have taken it all and seen it all and observed the same kind of marketing techniques used to push supplements over and over and over again for over 25yrs.

......."""For you to be even considering anything that Jacob of all people has to say regarding other companies, Mr. Conspiracy nut himself...c'mon man."""

I could give a sh*t less what you and jacob squable about. I stayed out of your fights over at regrowth and have done so here.

...."""If you have an issue where Primordial takes out advertising, then I suggest you give them a call and speak directly to Eric the President. He's a great guy and if you can give him a good reason to pull the advertising, then I'm sure he will.
However, to associate a bad forum or whatever with PP is just absurd. Btw, PP has been around for a year or so I believe...so are you sure you're not getting confused?"""

I don't need to talk to eric at PP. I don't care who it is that advertises with Elite Fitness be it PP, ELSOME or whoever i WILL NOT do bizness with them. THAT SITE sold fake steroids to soldiers going to possibly DIE for this country and that scam site ELITE FITNESS did not come to their defense ......not the owner , the management , or the their superduper heavy handed salesmen(who pushed PP so outrageously) The only ones that stood up for them was us regular posters. I kept my mouth shut over at regrowth when i saw you pushing PP and now i see it over here and i'm speaking my mind..........Jacob ain't got nothing to do with it fella. PP has been around for at least 3-4yrs and sure their products give you the same temporary gains that 100's of others do too at a higher price.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:32 pm

OverMachoGrande wrote:
Jacob wrote:That's a good excuse..but it's not "washing" with me. All the hairs on the side can not be that much thinner. And there should be plenty like that in the "after"...

But actually..I guess any "results" there could be what you're referring to then.

Oops..I'm not talking about pics :-&
Well, I'm sorry you aren't properly observing what happens with any handheld digital camera. It only needs to be slightly thinner and it happens because your camera can't handle the contrast range. A close up of the temples would have solved this better -less total contrast to disperse over one image- but it's too late for that now (unless maybe he has one). You could go test this out yourself and you can easily see what I mean -meaning get a digital camera, take a picture in bright lights, then put the picture on your computer. This is something you have to have experience with to really understand what I'm talking about.

Frankly for someone to "bleach" their temples is ridiculous -I mean that's laughable to say that someone would even think about doing that, and I don't know who originally said that but they need to be made fun of- so therefore there is another explanation for what you are seeing. I explained what that reason is, so you can believe it or not, whatever... I think most people would agree with me that the reason is the CAMERA, not because he's bleaching his temples (my god, that's just retarded) or doing anything else like that. You can even look at the temples and see that they are excessively washed out.

There's just no conflict here about what is going on.

But my point is that you-can-not-tell what is happening if that is indeed the case. I see a lot of "white" in the first picture. What's ridiculous is to then not have those white areas in the after and suggest the product is working.

What Anxious1 pointed out is exactly what I saw right away..and I was just waiting to see if anybody would notice or, I guess, have the guts to point it out. It took some time- first at IH's site(where the pictures and even Rye were attacked- not just on the light hair there. Hmmm..did Nid ever respond to that one??)...then at Regrowth(I think).

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:34 pm

nidhogge wrote:

Regarding Jacob thinking Rye bleached his temples--LOL. People, Jacob isn't that stupid--he's trying to cause a %&$! storm as usual.

Did I say he bleached his temples? See my response to OMG.

Anxious1 · Post by **Anxious1** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:54 am

i was only pointing out what was said on another forum, im not gonna get too involved in this one, nidhodge is trustworthy enough. they do look white, but there must be a good reason.

as for the contrast thing, i fully understand how the different cameras work, and i had that same problem when i took some photos on my laptop, cos i have dark hair, and the contrast just made everything black, even where i was thinning.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:59 pm

Did you see the latest at Regrowth? Now it's- 50+ different versions of the product before he got it right...and when he lists the ingreds some that he mentioned before aren't even listed anymore.

Anxious1 · Post by **Anxious1** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:09 am

i dont know wat to make of it, but im not trying it at the moment, im using too many other things. as always, as soon as one of these things works well, plenty of people will be on here saying how amazing it was, so ill just wait for that day to arrive. the truth always comes out in the end.

the thing is, for example with scalpure, which ill know in a few months whether its doing anything other than making my hair softer and shinier, which i dont care about cos i want regrowth, people r stopping minox to use it, which will obviously make them shed, so theyll be pretty pissed off if it deosnt work and they shed hair for nothing. dont get me wrong im against minoxidil, but if they have already taken the risk and grown hair with it, shedding it again makes that all pointless.

i know some people have to be guinea pigs, and i am for scalpure, but for this ignite stuff, someone else can do it, and ill buy it in a yr when its either proven to work or not to work.

glaxom · Post by **glaxom** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:29 am

I just read the Regrowth thread on this and i must say after bouncing around and reading these forums for a few years that Jacob has got to be head and shoulders above the rest when it comes to being told to STFU, f**k off, and f**k you. LOL

nidhogge · Post by **nidhogge** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:42 pm

Glaxom,

You are being absolutely ridiculous here.

#1--

Nobody forced those soldiers to take anything. You should be more concerned with the forced vaccinations and chemicals that our soldiers are exposed to in the military that are wreaking all sorts of havoc on their bodies as a result of our government. Those soldiers decided to not research what they were putting into their bodies. When I was trying out prohormones in my younger years, I did a %&$! load of research and found that Ergopharm 1-AD and 1-Methyl Test (think that was the name?) were fantastic strength boosters with low sides. Sure enough, they were. That's why I did 4 cycles total with them. If you support American soldiers, then you should also support Constitutional free speech and the right to be responsible for the decisions that you make.

#2--

When I say that Primordial has a great reputation, I'm saying feel free to speak to any of their customers. They have an open forum that's always active, and have a very loyal base of consumers and NO, you won't be able to find their supplements cheaper. They don't sell common things like protein, glutamine, etc. What they primarily sell is unique stuff that benefits your lifts in other ways like Toco-8 (the only mixed tocotrienol powder on the net, and also in my research the highest concentration of tocos in any product as well), EndoAmp Max (800mg of phosphatidylserine powder form, phenomenal for keeping cortisol levels down), etc.

If you're going to bash a company, then do your research. If not, then obviously you'll hear it from someone like me who has.

#3--

Primordial is making my topical, it's not that I'm pushing their products. I don't receive kickbacks from any company, and if anything, I just help folks get discounts on products. Hell, the trial is completely free to participate in for the topical on top of that.

#4--

Of course strength gains are temporary when supplementing, what's your point? If you eat less meat than you've been eating for years while lifting, then you can lose strength as well. Continue on a good product that's safe for your body, and you'll continue to reap the benefits. Yes, PP does have some anabolic products, but they primarily take a holistic nutritional approach like ImmortalHair does towards hairloss excepts towards bodybuilding, and that is what is unique about the company, and why I regard them highly.

nidhogge · Post by **nidhogge** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:47 pm

Jacob, regarding Rye's reply to you on Regrowth with the 50 variatons--either your reading comprehension skills absolutely suck, or you're just trying to cause a %&$!. As usual, I favor the latter.

I provided you the whole list of ingredients in his formulation way back, you may want to use your e-mail search function. If he overlooked typing a few ingredients, big #$%! deal? Well, that's the thing..it isn't a big deal. Only you want to make it into one to, again, cause a %&$!.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:57 pm

glaxom wrote:I just read the Regrowth thread on this and i must say after bouncing around and reading these forums for a few years that Jacob has got to be head and shoulders above the rest when it comes to being told to STFU, f**k off, and f**k you. LOL

I actually haven't gotten it that much but in this case I'll wear it as a badge of honor. Such tough questions for them!

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:01 pm

nidhogge wrote:Jacob, regarding Rye's reply to you on Regrowth with the 50 variatons--either your reading comprehension skills absolutely suck, or you're just trying to cause a %&$!. As usual, I favor the latter.

I provided you the whole list of ingredients in his formulation way back, you may want to use your e-mail search function. If he overlooked typing a few ingredients, big #$%! deal? Well, that's the thing..it isn't a big deal. Only you want to make it into one to, again, cause a %&$!.

My reading comprehension skills are fabulous. You..OMG..all the rest- if some goofball strolled in here w/out being introduced by you or ___________....you'd have laughed him out of the forum instantly with "50+ variations" etc.

And obviously it must be a big deal for BOTH of you to have to respond to me that way. Instead of saying- oh..I forgot to put that one in(which at this point I wouldn't believe either)...you tell me to stop asking such questions and to shut up. Three ingreds that I know of that were previously mentioned as being primary..active...ones that KICK!!! ..all of a sudden aren't listed. I'm guessing it took a year to come to that list

glaxom · Post by **glaxom** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:03 pm

by nidhogge » Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:42 pm

Glaxom,

"""You are being absolutely ridiculous here.""""

No you are getting ridiculously defensive anytime anybody says anything about a company you support, right or wrong.

#1--

"""Nobody forced those soldiers to take anything. You should be more concerned with the forced vaccinations and chemicals that our soldiers are exposed to in the military that are wreaking all sorts of havoc on their bodies as a result of our government."""

DON'T TELL ME I should be more concerned with what happens to our soldiers. I HAVE worked , lived, and sweated with soldiers for 34 yrs of my life. I HAVE been to more memorial services for dead soldiers for more years than you've been alive boy.

""""' Those soldiers decided to not research what they were putting into their bodies."""

MAYBE they didn't have time kiddo.....MAYBE they were training to go to war . Do you even have any idea how much time these young guys have during training to research the friggin internet before they head overseas?????. DID you ever even serve your country in the military????
..........

""""If you support American soldiers, then you should also support Constitutional free speech and the right to be responsible for the decisions that you make."""""

I JUST DON"T like scammers and shills and rip offs and deceptive advertising and i will use my free speech to denounce them

#2--

"""When I say that Primordial has a great reputation, I'm saying feel free to speak to any of their customers. They have an open forum that's always active, and have a very loyal base of consumers and NO, you won't be able to find their supplements cheaper.""""

No i said you can find supplements that do basically the same thing for less. Maybe you won't be able to lift 300lbs with a different supplement ....only 290.
I'm sure their web site forum is full of praise for them.

""""If you're going to bash a company, then do your research. If not, then obviously you'll hear it from someone like me who has"""".

DO MY research?? You're tied in with them and you didn't even know they had been around longer than a year , lol.
Once again........I didn't bash their products , they work . It's not rocket science to have a product that makes you stronger.........

I Question them being a big advertiser on a scam site that sells fake steriods to people on the front page. In fact i believe they are the only web site slimy enough to advertise these fake steroid guys.........
the scam site....................www.elitefitness.com

and what a respected site says about the fake legal steroids company they advertise.............
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthrea ... hlight=sdi

#3--

"""Primordial is making my topical, it's not that I'm pushing their products. I don't receive kickbacks from any company, and if anything, I just help folks get discounts on products. Hell, the trial is completely free to participate in for the topical on top of that.""""

Gosh who said you were getting kickbacks.....not me.

#4--

""""Of course strength gains are temporary when supplementing, what's your point?""""

That is my point that there is nothing really Earth Shattering new in building muscles with supplements...they are just more expensive than they've ever been.

"""Yes, PP does have some anabolic products""""

Yes and that's fine with me , i have no problems whatsoever with that. But if you take enough of that stuff for a long period of time it could lead to hair loss. But apparently they'll have that covered with this new hair product ...........ahh the irony

But hey nidhogge i'm glad to hear you say you support the troops............
even if they don't do their research before they buy fake supplements from a deceiving, unscrupulous company that advertises on the biggest bodybuiding scam site there is.

glaxom · Post by **glaxom** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:11 pm

[quote="nidhogge"]Glaxom,

You are being absolutely ridiculous here.

#1--

"""Nobody forced those soldiers to take anything. Those soldiers decided to not research what they were putting into their bodies. """

Let me get this straight ..........they should have done more research and asked some tough questions about these supplements before they bought them and it's too bad for them that they didn't.

But when Jacob tries to do some research and ask tough questions of some of the products you support you denounce him for asking so many questions.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:08 pm

Nidhogge's latest post has been deleted.

STOP with the name calling. You can try to intimidate me all you want- get your buddies on your side all you want. Some Regrowth members were BANNED for doing less than what you're doing.

glaxom · Post by **glaxom** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:22 pm

Well that's ok he can swear at me and call me gramps all he wants. And i will stand up for soldiers and get emotional about it, especially when it comes to getting ripped off by false and deceptive advertising . I did want to respond to just a couple of his statements. You can delete this too , i have no problem with that ........i'm through talking to him.

Nidhogge said:

I know Eric's margins, and I know the typical Bodybuilding supplement margins. They are FAR below it.
Clearly you haven't done your research or you'd realize that I'm *not* tied in with them. I'm a veteran poster that was encouraged via e-mail to formulate a natural product, and I did. I do not have the resources to actually create the product, and Primordial does, so that is the extent of the relationship. If it comes to market, I get 5% of the sales. If it comes to market, that means it works. If it doesn't work, I get nothing, and PP is out tens of thousands of dollars and I feel like %&$!.

Let's see, you're not tied in with Primordial but you know their profit margins and if the miracle hair product you develop with them makes $ you get 5% from Primordial
..........but you're not tied in with them. ok

Nidhogge said:
Actually, PP's anabolic products are pretty hair-friendly--did a cycle of 1-Tren myself. Doesn't raise DHT levels if I recall, and I am VERY sensitive to hormonal products when it comes to hair loss. Hair loss is huge in the bodybuilding industry even for non-hormonal users such as my younger brother, so it's a good business choice to want to integrate a hair loss topical into your product lineup.

Do you have proof that their anabolic products are hair friendly? We are we talking about the ones that you said gave you GYNO right?

Nidhogge, do you have a job? What i mean is ........i know you quit your regular job to go into making laser helmets/selling hair loss products. Is this stuff still the only way you are making a living ? If this is it than i can understand. Primordial Performance looks like a very good way to get ahead for you and you are acting accordingly.

Enough of this , it's saturday nite and gramps and grandma here are going down to the american legion.

.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:27 pm

I was going to leave the other parts up but figured he's lucky to even be posting here at this time..again, given what happened at Regrowth.

nidhogge · Post by **nidhogge** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:14 pm

Jacob, I guess you'll find out what's going to happen in time.

And, I love your double-standards as well. He can call me "boy" and "kiddo", but I can't return the same and call him "gramps"? Good job there sport.

Glaxom, I know PP's margins simply because I asked them. I became friends with Eric through e-mail, and I do my research. As mentioned, if my hair product gives results to people, then it'll be sold. Primordial is the vehicle by which I can deliver the product to the public. I guess you're anti-capitalism, and I should just be communistic and have PP sell the product for price. #$%! any work that I've done putting it together, or any work and money that PP's put into it, right? Well, if it doesn't work, you'll get your wish.

And, do I have a job? Yes, I work for myself, and I do a number of things aside from the helmets. I'm not relying on PP for an income, the soonest I'd make a dollar from it would be IF it went to market, and that wouldn't be until next summer. But, feel free to make assumptions and false accusations, just as most ignorant people do. Just like people that blame others for substances that they decide to put into their bodies. To hell with personal responsibility, what good did that ever do anybody?

Regarding their anabolics, you can read on the description for 1-Tren on their site why it most likely will not impact your hair. Or, you can mail them yourselves as I did.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:56 pm

nidhogge wrote:Jacob, I guess you'll find out what's going to happen in time.

And, I love your double-standards as well. He can call me "boy" and "kiddo", but I can't return the same and call him "gramps"? Good job there sport.

And there's the threats again. OMG..I would like you to respond to this and tell everybody what is going on, since you're on the phone with him etc.

Are you referring to the double-standard over at Regrowth where the mods were being called names and that was a problem...but the other way around was just fine? You need to stop telling us over here how to run things.

glaxom · Post by **glaxom** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:36 pm

Nidhogge wrote:

""Glaxom, I know PP's margins simply because I asked them. I became friends with Eric through e-mail, and I do my research. As mentioned, if my hair product gives results to people, then it'll be sold. Primordial is the vehicle by which I can deliver the product to the public. I guess you're anti-capitalism, and I should just be communistic and have PP sell the product for price. #$%! any work that I've done putting it together, or any work and money that PP's put into it, right? Well, if it doesn't work, you'll get your wish.""

Well we were just arguing about (among other things) you being "tied to P.P. You said no , but on regrowth you stated:

""""Primordial Performance is a bodybuilding supplement company with a focus on more natural substances over artificial. Eric, the founder, is very much a proponent of herbology and holistic medicine. That said, since the realm of hair nutrition is new to them, the "hair loss division" (I just made that up to make it easier to classify) is outsourced to folks like yours truly""

Maybe i don't understand what the definition of ''tied to'' is or maybe i don't understand what the definition of ''is'' is
and i certainly don't understand or have a hard time wrapping my arms around why a shampoo should cost $$ 425.00 for 6 months . And no i am not now or have i ever been a communist senator. I hope you make money off of it(if it works) or Ryan or rye or whoever formulated it . There should be some reward to the formulator who after trying 50 or so different shampoo variations until it started growing his hair. Jeez, just the water bill alone has got to be pretty high.........

Rye · Post by **Rye** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:54 pm

Wow this was a long thread to go through...

So i guess i have some questions and i will try to provide answers...

The bleach thing...I have a day job...so...logically if i bleached my head (temples) that would last a while and would look ridiculous and how exactly would i go to work the next day?...nuff said on that.

I didn't plan on selling anything to anyone ---read Nid's earlier posts as he explains it very well.

I tinkered on this formulation for over a year and have been using the final formulation for a year to date so the results are from the FINAL formulation.

I apologize if it is pricey but the ingredients are top notch and expensive as hell --- when PP or some other company picks this up i am sure they can offer it at a much better price than i can.

If you have legitimate questions i am happy to answer.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:58 pm

1. Which ingredients do you consider to be "expensive as hell"?

2. Why does your final active ingreds list not contain 3 that you've previously mentioned as being active..primary..etc?

glaxom · Post by **glaxom** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:49 am

p__ had listed some questions for the scalpure guy that could probably be changed to ask every person that comes on here and has a product to sell.

Just an example for now and everyone could add or subtract what questions would be pertinent to each individual hair loss product being pushed. It's Your Hard Earned Money they want so at least they should be willing to answer questions from board members.................... It's Your Money , take a stand and ask questions while you still can .

1. Who invented the Ignite product?
2. What is his/her background and credentials?
3. How was the product invented?
4. How have the claims regarding the method of action of regrowth been verified?
5. What is the background of Mr ________? What other businesses have you previously run?
6. What are the active ingredient responsible for the regrowth of the hair in your pictures.
7. What are the other ingredients for?
8. What exactly makes the Ignite product effective, compared to other products. Is there an exact chemical reason.
9. Will there be a money back guarantee on the product and if not why?

p__ · Post by **p__** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:23 pm

glaxom wrote:p__ had listed some questions for the scalpure guy that could probably be changed to ask every person that comes on here and has a product to sell.

Just an example for now and everyone could add or subtract what questions would be pertinent to each individual hair loss product being pushed. It's Your Hard Earned Money they want so at least they should be willing to answer questions from board members.................... It's Your Money , take a stand and ask questions while you still can .

Yeah, I think it would be a great idea to have a sort of template of questions that anyone coming here trying to sell something should be prepared to answer. Others should chime in and make the list better and it would also have to be slightly customized for each product. Naturally, it is just a staring point for further questions.

Rye (on another board) wrote:but the one difference is that i am not a company --- i am an average guy like you who happened to stumble on something

Regarding the product at hand, Ignite, I get the impression you (Rye) is just regular forum user who claims to have stumbled across something which works. As such, IMHO I think you are asking a little too much from your potential customers and that you sound slightly too certain about your claims. It is obvious that even though you have tested it on yourself, you cannot possibly have made enough tests on enough people to assert with any certainty that this works in general, something which you admittedly acknowledged in another thread. You basically want people to pay for being your guinea pigs. Normally, companies pay test subjects. Jacob touched upon that subject in the beginning of the thread. Perhaps you should consider a 100% money-back guarantee? That said, I'm convinced there is nothing directly harmful about the ingredients, other than possibly making your wallet shrink. I am certainly not trying to put anyone off trying the stuff for fear of side effects, the ingredients seem common enough.

If you're just a regular hair loss sufferer, I personally think it would be a very admirable thing to give the formula away to your fellow baldies if you have indeed stumbled across something helpful. Naturally, that is your prerogative.

You maintain that the concentrations and ratios are the important factors, even though you have only tested it on one person. That is naturally not a statistically significant conclusion. Considering that a distinctive change in hair loss probably would take months to detect, a one year trial on one person wouldn't allow for that much variation of the parameters to begin with. Personally, I think that sounds a little too convenient and that you perhaps simply don't want people to think they can do it themselves. What protocol did you use for testing the exact ratios and their efficiency? Or maybe you're referring more to making the formulation "practical" in terms of consistency/smell/color/stablity rather than effiency?

It would be nice if you could clarify whether some of the ingredients have actually changed since those earlier posts or if that was just a misunderstanding!

So, in conclusion, because this is just based on the one testimonial of the person selling it and because of some of the other reasons discussed above I'm not going to try this for now. I'm asking myself what sets the claims about this product apart from all the other product claims? What makes this product more likely to be for real than all the other? Basically all products out there, save less than a handful, have been scams or extreme exaggerations at best. For anyone objectively looking at all this, the risk that the latter is true should be very real. There are hundreds of products out there with good before/after photos which do not live up to their claims.

I certainly hope I'm wrong, and if others wish to try it, good luck to them! And if the product actually works, I wish you (Rye) the best of luck as well. I look forward to you coming here and rubbing it in my face!

I'm sure you understand that for me and many others here,it is impossible to know if you are sincere or if you're just out to make a buck. Nothing personal. If I start seeing good reviews from known posters, I will certainly reconsider it!

Rye · Post by **Rye** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:00 pm

I am making NO claims, NO guarantees, and i've only used it on myself...Using mostly the same ingredients i've tried different 'ratios' of ingredients and percentages of each and using existing studies have formulated concentrations that have worked according to those studies, capsaicum, salicylic acid, etc. No ingredients have changed ---- i've listed SOME of the ingredients a couple different times and have not disclosed the full list...why would I?...would you?...honestly would any of you?...my aim is to "AT COST TO ME" give a select few the opportunity to see the results that i saw ---again NO guarantees but if it works for one person chances are it work for a good percentage of people. --- if i could afford to do an actual trial i would but i can't so I am doing the best that i can with what i've got...I am planning to sell my formulation to a big company so if i gave the formula away i wouldn't be able to do that ---- again i ask "would you?" --- i understand the skepticism i have been burnt myself more than once myself but wait six months - year and you'll see.

rosariorose9 · Post by **rosariorose9** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:53 am

Rye,

I'm one of the 'testers'. Any more specific idea as to when you'll be shipping it?

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:06 am

1. Which ingredients do you consider to be "expensive as hell"?

You touched on my second question..but that does not explain yours and Nid's responses to me when I pointed out previous listed ingreds are not in your final "actives" list. Responses that included trying to shut me up.

chore boy · Post by **chore boy** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:40 am

Rye,

Are you worried that the constant/long term use of caspacian may eventually result in diminished Substance P levels?

Joey Ramone · Post by **Joey Ramone** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:53 am

It just ended. What the hell?

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:30 pm

What ended??

Joey Ramone · Post by **Joey Ramone** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:10 am

The thread!

Where's the rest of it? Where's the thrilling conclusion?

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