LA Science- growth factor peptides..nano delivery

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:39 pm

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http://www.la-science.co.uk/the-results ... -data.html

In vivo clinical studies have shown that Oligopeptide – 16, one of the ingredients in the anti-hair loss serum, when delivered to the base of the hair follicle, helps strengthen hair while stimulating hair follicles to produce healthier hair.
It increases energy at the hair root, improving scalp circulation and encourages growth by activation of hair follicle stem cells.

Oligopeptide – 5, in clinical showed strengthening of the hair shaft, while stimulating the hair follicle. (It’s the hair shaft that becomes weak, in pattern baldness)

Oligopeptide – 18, Promotes hair growth and inhibits depigmentation of hair and helps blood circulation in the scalp, revitalising hair follicles.

Clinical trials demonstrated in skin organ culture that growth factor stimulating peptides, may act as a stimulator of hair placode formation, at least in part by antagonising the inhibitory effect of hair follicle development.

Control skin culture showed absence of hair where as treated skin displayed emerging new hair through the epidermis.
Ref. VladimitA.et als 2001. FASEB J. 15 (journal)

On this page http://www.la-science.co.uk/the-results.html it says

LA Science shampoo creates a healthy environment for anti-hair loss which improves blood supply to the scalp.
One of the main ingredients of the shampoo is Copper Tripeptide. Copper peptide complex increases blood vessel network to the hair follicle, increasing the size of the follicle, encouraging hair growth.

LA Science Ant-hair loss Serum delivers multiple growth factor peptides to the base of the hair follicle which produces a healthier hair shaft, increasing hair growth rate and reducing hair loss.

Only one before/after:

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Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:50 pm

I guess there's at least one other set(did I mention I hate pictures?): http://lifestyleaesthetics.com/Practiti ... after.html

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chore boy · Post by **chore boy** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:53 pm

Smells like Dermaheal in here... nice find though.

Seems it's only available in the UK.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:19 pm

Were there any Dermaheal pics? Maybe they're the same.

There are places that ship to the USA: http://www.feelunique.com/p/LA-Science- ... Serum.html

chore boy · Post by **chore boy** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:55 pm

Damn, I'm good.

http://2weeksmiracleusa.com/store/produ ... 50-ml.html

That's wierd... it's not the same Dermaheal I used. LA Science and the Dermaheal product posted above talk about GF mimicking peptides, while the one posted below (the one I used) allegedly uses nano GFs... matter of fact, didn't we trace it back to Caregen? Could be wrong though...

http://www.ruhealthy.com/product_info.p ... cts_id=280

Anywho, the shampoo sucked and the solution was worthless. Don't worry... I gave it enough time.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:11 am

Actually Chore..I do worry

This LA Science product IS nano..see the thread title. And yet it does look this "new" Dermaheal, which still says nothing about nano

Strange. They also have the shampoo.

And yes, it is Caregen: http://www.in-cosmeticsasia.com/Exhibit ... ue-C_1.pdf See page 22.

Two products in fact. A spray and a serum. Main ingreds:

Main Ingredients: Insulin-like Growth Factor-1 (IGF-1), basic Fibroblast Growth Factor (bFGF),
Vascular Endothelial Growth Factor (VEGF), Copper Tripeptide-1,
Multi-vitamins and Amino acids

And it seems these are the old products after all: http://links.regrowth.com/hairloss-foru ... =1&t=21672

nate · Post by **nate** » Sat May 30, 2009 9:05 am

so what happened to interest in this product?

It seems over at regrowth.com, which i am having trouble accessing as usual, nidhogge is talking about a group buy for dermalheal HL from caregen, is it the same thing or what?

did any of the products posted in this thread end up showing any results for anyone?

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Sat May 30, 2009 10:16 am

nate..things like this make me chuckle a bit. If these same ingreds were being brought up by Nid, or certain other ppl(nothing wrong with them..just making a point here) and they were going to have a topical made with those ingreds...you'd have a bunch of people jumping on the bandwagon. There are plenty of these kinds of products out there already. Even that "new" StemC'rum by Caregen has been out for about a year and a half. Other places are already selling it.

It seems this is different from Dermaheal...for sure the old Dermaheal, since chore boy already stated so(he used Dermaheal).

hairsucks · Post by **hairsucks** » Sat May 30, 2009 2:58 pm

I've been using it for about a week, I'll let you know if it's any good in about 5-6 months.

perga · Post by **perga** » Sat May 30, 2009 10:24 pm

IMO growth factors are working, BUT, I think the treatment will need to be continuous for the results to be long lasting. For that reason, I would really love a product like A&G, but with the following changes...

1) Better Price
2) Synthetic Growth Factors (I know you supposedly can't catch anything from cellular derived sources, but I would much prefer not being the first person to catch HIV)
3) Nano Delivery

@Jacob: does Elsom do anything with growth factors? I know they have already got the nano delivery down. I get the feeling #1 would likely not happen if Elsom released a product like this (though I'm sure it would be great quality).

nate · Post by **nate** » Sat May 30, 2009 10:57 pm

Jacob wrote:nate..things like this make me chuckle a bit. If these same ingreds were being brought up by Nid, or certain other ppl(nothing wrong with them..just making a point here) and they were going to have a topical made with those ingreds...you'd have a bunch of people jumping on the bandwagon. There are plenty of these kinds of products out there already. Even that "new" StemC'rum by Caregen has been out for about a year and a half. Other places are already selling it.

It seems this is different from Dermaheal...for sure the old Dermaheal, since chore boy already stated so(he used Dermaheal).

Hmmm... so are you basically saying that all of the stuff being hyped by Nid on regrowth is already available to the public without the whole hassle of a group buy? So for example the Dermaheal HL that he is advertising on regrowth is the same as what? the LA Science product or the ruhealthy product chore boy used or the 2weekmiracle product? Or is there any difference between ANY of them? And most importantly is there ANY real indication that any of these will actually do anything for hairloss?! what about the nanosomes stuff, do any of these use it?

hairsucks, maybe i missed this but which one did you use? The LA science stuff?

perga, that is exactly what i was saying, that they need to turn the stuff into a daily continuous treatment, dilute it or something and lower the price cuz i felt it was working while i was using it

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Sun May 31, 2009 7:45 am

perga wrote:
@Jacob: does Elsom do anything with growth factors? I know they have already got the nano delivery down. I get the feeling #1 would likely not happen if Elsom released a product like this (though I'm sure it would be great quality).

Via their Formulator they have KGF: http://www.the-formulator.com/skincare/ ... ucts_id=51 ..but that's it at the moment. And very expensive. And they're honest about the shelf-life..which is 2-3 months refrigerated.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Sun May 31, 2009 7:59 am

nate wrote:

Hmmm... so are you basically saying that all of the stuff being hyped by Nid on regrowth is already available to the public without the whole hassle of a group buy? So for example the Dermaheal HL that he is advertising on regrowth is the same as what? the LA Science product or the ruhealthy product chore boy used or the 2weekmiracle product? Or is there any difference between ANY of them? And most importantly is there ANY real indication that any of these will actually do anything for hairloss?! what about the nanosomes stuff, do any of these use it?

Not ALL of the stuff. I think the "custom" product he had made is different from other things being discussed. But then again..I'd have to look at all of the ingreds.

The "DermaHeal" products are available at quite a few places. At least one in the USA- http://www.apothecure.com I don't know if they have any of the "new" ones- Stem C'rum etc..but I've sent them an email to find out. There's nothing wrong with Nid doing this..especially if he can get it cheaper. I'm just amazed at the amount of interest in certain things when an individual decides to get a "group buy" on something, compared to someone just posting about the products that are available elsewhere. Although I suppose A&G is an exception(though it's not something someone could have gotten a group buy on..at least not prior to them selling it themselves)...and maybe if the Stem C'rum had been posted with links to buy earlier, there'd be as much interest. But imagine if he did this for the nano-hGH..I can guarantee you'd have numerous ppl saying- count me in!

I have no idea if they will actually do anything for hair loss. They should..and ppl should give them enough time if they do use them. But even with them being out there for awhile..there's no mountain of evidence that they're wonder products. I do like the Stem C'rum though...the fact that you have to mix two things together(think- stability)..the ingreds..etc.

What is nanosomal? This is what bothers me about Caregen. It's hard to tell what uses them and what doesn't. You have to go by the ingreds lists..and even then, some(and even Caregen) will claim it's nanosomal, even though there's nothing in the ingreds that could possibly make it nanosomal or liposomal or ____somal

nate · Post by **nate** » Sun May 31, 2009 9:01 am

So Jacob,

Where can you get the stem crum stuff that nid was talking about? Am I correct in assuming that that stuff was probably superior to the Dermaheal HL? I was kind of confused by what nid was talking about on the thread at regrowth, and i shot him a few emails but he did not respond. Maybe I'll try to go read it again

nate · Post by **nate** » Sun May 31, 2009 9:13 am

i do agree though, if any of this stuff actually worked, wouldn't we probably have heard about it by now?

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Sun May 31, 2009 10:06 am

I had links over at Regrowth on places that already carried it. Overseas. I'm not even going to attempt to go there to look them up..I'd have a better chance of finding a Trojan

The one I do remember is http://myfatdissolve.com/

You would think it'd be superior to the Dermaheal..although the Dermaheal seems to now be nanosomal. It doesn't sound like the Stem C'rum is...although it's possible. Mixing two different vials together..hmmm..well NanoPro is a powder and certain ingreds are encapsulated..so who knows. In fact I'm almost certain I've come across "dry" ingredients that are encapsulated- made for topical use when mixed up.

Apothecure may also carry it..waiting for a response on that.

Maybe the pdf Nid says he has shows some good before/afters. I've never been into pictures much..but with products like these you'd think they'd be out there. And maybe some "studies". I've been wondering if there's anything like that out there for that nano-hGH as well.

nate · Post by **nate** » Sun May 31, 2009 10:40 am

cool, i checked it out, looks like more than 200 usd for 5 vials of 5 ml, boy that sounds familiar

i'm having trouble with regrowth.com, so im curious how much of this stuff are you supposed to put on, like how long would each vial last for? i guess no one has figured out yet if this stuff could basically be the same as AG

anyone ordered from myfatdissolve before? i wonder if it is reputable

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Sun May 31, 2009 3:52 pm

As you can see on page 30..you mix two vials together. I think I read you'd apply one, once a week. http://www.in-cosmeticsasia.com/Exhibit ... ue-C_1.pdf

BTW..I'd have no problem if A&G got theirs from Caregen. They shouldn't have a problem just saying so though.

Edit...I think..once again..they're talking about the skin product there. The hair product is in single vials on page 33. Notice the skin one talks about nanosomes..the hair one does not. But I'm sure we'll know soon enough if the hair one is nanosomal.

And Apothecure does list it on their website:

DermaHeal Stem C’rum Anti-Hair Loss (HL) - Moisturizes, nourishes
and improves the hair and scalp condition; Promotes blood circulation in
the scalp and revitalizes hair follicles; Induces hair growth by increasing
the size of the hair follicle and stops hair loss. Contains: IGF-1, bFGF,
VEGF, Copper Tripeptide, Biotin, Human Adipocyte Conditioned Media
Extract, Amino acid. Mineral and vitamins.
Stock# 19478 (5x5ml)

Page 4 http://www.apothecure.com/_if/pdfs/cata ... atalog.pdf
Notice 5x5ml..so it must be single vials. I see that's what you pointed out the other site was saying too.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Sun May 31, 2009 4:02 pm

Here's another place you'd think would be able to carry it: http://www.2weeksmiracleusa.com/store/index.php/

kamisama · Post by **kamisama** » Sun May 31, 2009 5:07 pm

so this dermaheal is the same as the LA science? the packaging looks identical

nate · Post by **nate** » Sun May 31, 2009 9:17 pm

hmmm... i'm wondering if all of these very similar products being released by many different companies is a good, bad, or neutral sign as far as the product's actual effectiveness in hairloss

like you would think if the stuff works, one company would try to hold onto it exclusively, then again if it does work then maybe multiple companies would be trying very hard to get ahold of it, hence what we are seeing here

does anyone know where are all of these products are coming from? So dermaheal is a line of products from an actual company called dermaheal? I just don't get it

but i do feel that all of these places carrying it for awhile and no real buzz about it does not sound really good for its effectiveness, does not mean i will not try it, but makes me suspicious

Jacob, it sounds like you are very interested in the dermaheal stem crum stuff, but what do you think about the other dermaheal HL or the many other dermaheal products that are very similar to the HL? What exactly, besides the stability issue and the mixing, makes the stem crum stuff so much better? it is certainly much more expensive. I only ask because you have always seemed really knowledgeable and realistic. Thanks!

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:56 am

Dermaheal is made by Caregen. IMO some of these other products being discussed are also made by Caregen. "Dermaheal USA Corp. is a subsidiary of the Caregen Ltd. Co"

On the stem C'rum...it seems it's not a two-part system after all. You can see the pictures of the vials on those pdf's...they're the same type of vials A&G uses. I'm more interested in the C'rum because it's a new(er) product. The others have been around a lot longer, and yet I've never seen much happening with them. But my guess is one could just as well use A&G's product. And..my guess again..is that it should probably be used like the C'rum..once a week..continuously.

nix · Post by **nix** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:16 am

they are not the same. a&g is fibroblast conditioned and caregens stem c'rum is adipose derived maybe the rest is the same.

Alex Summers · Post by **Alex Summers** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:17 pm

I kinda want to give this product a shot, but I'm a little hesitant to try it.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:01 pm

nix wrote:they are not the same. a&g is fibroblast conditioned and caregens stem c'rum is adipose derived maybe the rest is the same.

http://www.specialchem4cosmetics.com/td ... index.aspx

bFGF(basic Fibroblast Growth Factor)
Caregen Co., Ltd.

Active Ingredient
- Hair growth promotion

$\:D/$

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:30 pm

Alex Summers wrote:I kinda want to give this product a shot, but I'm a little hesitant to try it.

I'm going to wait to see if the Stem C'rum is nanosomal. If not..I'll pass. If it is...I may give it a go. I'll have to work overtime though....

Alex Summers · Post by **Alex Summers** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:06 pm

Is the Stem C'rum for sale? I've been reading these posts and I'm still a little confused if one is able to purchase this product or not.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:13 pm

It is for sale..overseas.http://myfatdissolve.com/ is one place.
Apothecure lists it..but the guy hasn't responded to my emails about purchasing it.

nate · Post by **nate** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:36 pm

so how do we find out if the stuff is nanosomal or not?

perga · Post by **perga** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:45 am

I'm not sure if this is the same PDF, but according to this one (on page 33)...

http://www.in-cosmeticsasia.com/Exhibit ... ue-C_1.pdf

The Stem C'Rum HL is lyophilized (freeze dried), and the directions indicate you need to combine the two things (even though the picture doesn't really show it).

It seems like the Stem C'Rum has all the universal information (for the whole Stem C'Rum line) listed under itself (the info on how to combine the vials etc), which leads me to believe that the HL is probably nanoencapsulated.

I emailed them for pricing on both the Stem C'Rum HL and Dermaheal HL. I'm not sure what the difference is in terms of potential results, but I think Stem is newer, so that's probably the way to go.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:25 am

Argh..I guess I was right the first time..about mixing 2 vials together.

nate..when the complete ingredients list is posted..then we'll know if it's nanosomal.

nix · Post by **nix** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:06 am

no I didn't mean a speacific growth factor but the source where the growth factors are coming from. in the stem c'rum there is no sign of adipose which makes it different

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:19 am

But that's what I posted..the source(s). The fact that Caregen does make them means they could provide them to A&G or ________.

kamisama · Post by **kamisama** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:25 pm

is LA science worth a try then? its price is kinda low though

nix · Post by **nix** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:58 am

but bFGF(basic Fibroblast Growth Factor) is a specific growth factor and not the source. anyway it doesn't really matter. hair complex might be made by caregen and it might not be made by caregen. the only thing that matters is the results

goten574 · Post by **goten574** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:41 pm

:-"

My head just exploded. How many hair loss products out there? Geez, thousands I would say. All a mystery, and I believe there is one out that that's amazing but it's undiscovered due to not many people trying it.

nate · Post by **nate** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:20 pm

so if i wanted to try any of these right now would not be a good time because we don't really know whether these things came from caregen or not and whether or not they are nano encapsulated? Man, I hate hairloss, it is one dead end after another until you just decide on shaving your head down

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:58 pm

This one does seem to be nano'd.

The thing I've noticed about any product..is many don't give them enough time/use them long enough.

nate · Post by **nate** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:08 pm

Jacob wrote:This one does seem to be nano'd.

The thing I've noticed about any product..is many don't give them enough time/use them long enough.

Jacob, by "This one" you mean the LA science growth factors?

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:06 am

nate wrote:
Jacob wrote:This one does seem to be nano'd.

The thing I've noticed about any product..is many don't give them enough time/use them long enough.
Jacob, by "This one" you mean the LA science growth factors?

Yep.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:34 am

BTW..the link Chore provided for some reason is no longer valid. Here's the new one: http://2weeksmiracleusa.com/store/derma ... 50-ml.html

astro_boy · Post by **astro_boy** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:18 am

Doing some research on both Dermaheal and LA Science products it seems they are different. Dermaheal appears to be using Human recombant protiens and LA Science only the mimicking peptides. Probably why its cheaper. Here's what I found.

DermaHeal:

IGF-1(Insulin-like Growth Factor 1)
- Reduce and prevent lines and wrinkles by actively
generating new skin cells.
- Increase collagen and elastin levels and reduce
blotchiness.
- Refine texture glides effectively and slim your face
and body with a fat burning effect.
- Strengthen hair while stimulating hair follicles to
produce strong hair shaft.

bFGF (basic Fibroblast Growth Factor)
- Reduce and prevent lines and wrinkles by actively
generating new skin cells.
- Involve in normal skin growth, healing and wound
repair.
- Strengthen skin elasticity by inducing the synthesis
of collagen and elastin.
- Help blood circulation in the scalp and revitalizing
hair follicles.

Prohairin B4
- Increase cell growth and migration.
- Promote hair growth by activating the stem cells of
hair follicle.
- More stable and prolong action than native proteins.

VEGF(Vascular Endothelial Growth Factor)
- Hair growth stimulation through the facilitation of
nutrient feeding to hair follicle by the VEGF-
induced angiogenesis.

LA Science:

CG-Keramin 2
- Reduce and prevent lines and wrinkles by actively generating new skin cells.
- Refine texture glides effectively and light up skin.
- Delivery of CG-Keramin2 to the base of the follicles which helps strengthen hair while stimulating hair follicles to produce strong hair shaft.

CG-IDP2
- Strengthen skin elasticity by inducing the synthesis of collagen and elastin.
- Involve in normal skin growth,healing and wound repair.
- Reduce and prevent lines and wrinkles by actively generating new skin cells.

Prohairin B4
- Increase cell growth and migration.
- Promote hair growth by activating the stem cells of
hair follicle.
- More stable and prolong action than native proteins.

Decopeptide-42
Can't find this one on Caregen site, it's possible they meant oligopeptide-42

CG-Fibramin (oligopeptide-42)
- Strengthen skin elasticity by inducing the synthesis
of collagen and elastin.
- Involve in normal skin growth, healing and wound repair.
- Promote hair growth and inhibit depigmentation of hair.
- Help blood circulation in the scalp and revitalizing
hair follicles.

OK, final thoughts;
I get the feeling LA science is simply trying to mimic Dermaheal but in a cheaper manner by only using the mimicking peptides.
LA Science talks about Oligopeptide – 5, Oligopeptide – 16, Oligopeptide – 18, on their website but to my knowledge they are not in the product, perhaps they have updated the ingredients? I don't know. somebody should Email them and ask... or if anyone has purchased it scan the ingredient list. Also the ingredient list I have has the growth peptides listed at the bottom of the list.. where Dermaheal has its growth factors listed at the top... I'm not sure if that reflects on the amount contained in the serum or not, but it could.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:17 pm

Astro-boy..thanks for that post. I hope you don't mind me posting it at Regrowth..someone there mentioned the LA Science product in the thread.

astro_boy · Post by **astro_boy** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:44 pm

no problem man, afterall you got me started on the whole growth factor train. If anyone is interested I purchased one bottle of each to see exactly whats in them and do a little testing. I think it might be a good strategy to use several different factors, even if they do the same thing, rather than overloading on just a few. So I'm going to try alternating between the two. My only real concern is low amount of factors on the LA Science list.. if the ranking is at all any indication of the amount of growth peptides.. I hate when companies water down their product.

intricate1 · Post by **intricate1** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:31 pm

Jacob thank you also for letting me know about growth factors, I am truthfuly thankful. So can you let us know about the results of the dermaheal maybe start a thread like a&g. I am waiting to buy this cause I am broke. But all this is very exciting

intricate1 · Post by **intricate1** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:53 pm

Hey Jacob I just ordered the dermaheal good move? Have you tried it?

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:51 pm

Haven't tried it...and only time will tell if it's a good move.

chore boy · Post by **chore boy** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:36 pm

Anyone ever try the LA Science serum?

And to the Dermaheal users... is it a blue-ish color? Does it kinda smell almost like Tricomin?

doke · Post by **doke** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:48 am

guess what dermaheal serum with la science shampoo for sale together on amazon,also caregen says you may need to use propecia with the dermaheal ? :-"

intricate1 · Post by **intricate1** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:44 am

Where did you hear that with caragen?

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