A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by p__ » Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:33 pm

Ah! Naturally, you guys beat me to it! I see you already posted some of my points while I was editing :)
So to those who don't think this product will work - don't post in this thread anymore
SW2, I don't agree with you! I'm with bug on that one! I don't think we should limit critique or scrutiny at all, as long as it is civil, to the point and respectful. Review and objective evaluation is part of science, as is challenging claims. Poeple posting insults and unwarranted accusations should naturally be excluded from discussion. I'm sure that Bug did not mean to make an accusation, he was merely trying to make a point. He chose to do so in a way which could possibly be perceived as such, but I'm sure that he did not mean to come across that way. If we ask him, I'm sure he'll acknowledge that.

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by bug » Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:12 pm

Thanks p

Ill let my posts speak for themselves :)

Now just to show that Im not all gloom...I just took a look at the new skin product before and after photos and I have to say WOW!! Those are the most impressive results I have ever seen after just one or two weeks. Id seriously consider buying the skin cream.

I'd still like to know what is in the hair serum...I hope the growth factors dont include tgf-beta and il-6,8 ...great for skin bad for hair. KGF and WNT would be cool..but we'll see.

bug

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by hulihoop » Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:18 pm

Well I can't add anything to what you guys have said about the photos in terms of how they could be better or how they are inconsistent. From a positive perspective a) they are definitely the same guy, b) to me show definite regrowth along the hairline/temples, c) some regrowth on the top. Hair is longer I guess because hair grows in 15 weeks. I am sure this guy didn't want to keep cutting his hair to bring it back to baseline length once he started to see it growing :) I guess the other positive thing is that this only represents 15 weeks which is ridiculously short in this game. The initial regrowth on the hairline was visible in half that time which really is amazing.

I am a little disappointed that his crown didn't start to fill in, however lets face it, the guy was pretty much a cue ball to start with. Those crown follicles were probably long dead and Dr. AQ did say that this product isn't going to do anything to change that.

I agree it would be great to see more pics and get more info. Hopefully more to come. However I can see a diffuse thinner with quite recent hair loss filling in better than this guy did. And if it stops hair loss in its tracks (hard to take a photo of that) that alone would be worth the money. That's what I'll hope for when I try it.

Bug if you weren't implying scam then I retract that post.

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by Dr.AQ » Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:19 pm

Greetings everyone..
Thank you guys for the support and the understanding. As some of you noticed, the website is partially completed and some of the pictures are up. There will be another update before launch.
We are entering finals week at the university, please forgive my delayed response to your questions.
Before answering questions, I would like to shed light on the A&G and Invitrx relationship. Dr. Maguire and I were associated with Invitrx before starting A&G Skin Solutions Inc. While the technology seem similar between us and others (Skin Medica, neocutis and revive) each one of us produce and process it differently. In addition, the concentrations of the active ingredients as well as the purity level between the other products contribute greatly to their effectiveness. At A&G we believe our technology is more advanced than the others making our products superior. We do provide private labeling for different companies, especially overseas. I think I mentioned this in one of my posts (Hair complex in asia has different name). A&G have been in the market for 18 months and our products have been reviewed, tested and featured on radio shows. We are not a scam or crocks. If we don't share information to protect out business and intellectual properties, that does not make us crocks. We are honest hard working people with families and friends, just like you. Again thank you guys for the kind emails and all the support. Production is on time and we are on schedule. \:D/

Dutchhairloss : I rather not discuss other companies. Again, Dr. Maguire and I have no association with skin medica at all. We believe that A&G Hair complex will help improve your scalp and the regrowth of hair. we will provide all the results we can to help you make a better decision. Its not a good idea to show pictures of before and after of the company's founders. I think people here will eat me alive :D .

Astro_boy : Yes, always wash hair and scalp before applying the complex.

Richie : yes, you can continue using other products in conjunction with A&G Complex.

Ok, lets talk about the pictures: Many will notice the head tilting and angles are different and I know I will be receiving emails about it all week. But before emailing me, please keep this in mind. When we started the treatments, we expected the hair to grow on the front area (major hair loss), thus we focus on the front aspect of the head. As time passes, we noticed more growth on the top and sides of the head, thus we adjusted the head angle. One limitation of the Visia machine http://www.canfieldsci.com/Imaging_Products_Visia.asp (please see picture of the machine) is its size. Placing the entire head inside and maintaining the exact angle is impossible especially when there is a an average period of 2 weeks between the shots. We will have more pictures and also pictures from people like you who won't mind sharing their experience with us. We used these pictures because he displayed 6-7 norwood scale and many can relate to him. He is not the best results we had but for sure, the most cooperative and understanding trialist in the study (Thank You Mr.A). We did ask Mr. A to trim his hair and he did, but part of the study also to measure hair thickness and maximum hair length. to determine, if hair growth will continue after stopping the treatment.
P__ : do you remember the promise you made me :D ?

Thank you guys..

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by bug » Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:26 pm


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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by astro_boy » Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:27 pm

So Dr. AQ, there will be more photos for trialists for certain? Many of us are not NW 6 or 7 and are looking for something we can possibly better relate to. The more photos the better...

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by bug » Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:30 pm

astroboy Im counting on seeing your photos :)

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by astro_boy » Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:53 pm

haha.. we'll I'll do my best to document. The treatment *sounds like it would be right up my alley. I'm a thinner with a lot of miniaturized hairs, my hair is black and my skin is pretty fair so I can still see the little buggers if I look hard.. just have to wake them up. No real bald spots yet but some thin ones so I think I have some pretty good blood flow in the scalp still. I'm also not on and have never been on any other topicals.

Though I know treatment works differently for everyone and I appreciate Mr. A's cooperation, but I wouldn't mind having something to compare myself to first.

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by p__ » Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:53 pm

Dr.AQ wrote:P__ : do you remember the promise you made me :D ?
I sure do! :lol: I look forward to the rest of the photos and hopefully I can make good on that promise then!

Do you plan to make any high resolution pictures available?

This set of pictures suffers too much from the tilting problem for me to be really make a conclusive judgement in terms of results. I'm hard to please, I know :) Someone commented on another site that the brightness is possibly different too. They even posted some adjusted photos. One way to address that problem for you is to include a color bar or color cards (sometimes used for color calibration) somewhere in future photos. The color card provides a permanent color reference between photos and simply consists of a small card with some clear, usually well defined, colors. That would make it possible to adjust the photos to the exact same color/brightness since the colors on the cards should be the same in all photos.

In the meantime, here is some feedback regarding the new site (I realize it's not done yet):

The photos flash by rather quickly, maybe a few seconds more would be better? It would be perfect if you could add buttons to pause, go to next/previous image etc. Most importantly, you should make them clickable to show larger images. Right now, they are so small, almost like thumbnails. I think that would be beneficial for the photos for your other products as well (skin serum etc).

Once again, thanks for your hard work!

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by perga » Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:59 pm

Thanks very much for the update Dr. AQ.

This is honestly about what I expected from someone NW6-7, I just don't see ANYTHING short of hair multiplication (Aderans or Follica) that is going to grow hair back in the areas of most loss in that situation (based on current technology that is). I DO see regrowth around the edges where the hair was just thinning however.

I am still very much looking forward to seeing the results on someone with more recent hair loss, and thank you for keeping your word about the website being updated this weekend!

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by perga » Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:02 pm

Bug, in the skim serum photo with the woman and a nose sore, what is going on with the jaw? There are obvious lines (almost look like scars) on all the before pictures and none on the afters? Is that the skim serum working or ... ? If so they is pretty damned impressive.

Her skin also looks substantially healthier, or perhaps she just got a tan or something.

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by redbird » Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:14 pm

Dr AQ,

Did the guy in the pictures that are up on your website use lasers as well? I assume so. Just wondering.

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by bug » Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:09 pm

Perga yeah now Im starting to wonder. They just seem too good to be true. I wonder if laser resurfacing was done.

Dr AQ could you answer that? In your new before and after photos for the skin serum, was laser resurfacing done on any of the patients in addition to using the serum?

Also Dr AQ.....Its diffult to ask questions without details on the hair serum but ill ask one made on an assumption...

If you hair serum contains various growth factors like your skin serum does(I hope different ones), arent the molecular weights way too high for penetration through the stratum corneum? It is my understanding that anything over 400-800 daltons is too large. Some of these growth factors such as tgf-beta and KGF are 25 000 daltons. In a word they are huge. I believe this is why companies like Histogen are injecting their soultions containg WNTS and KGF.

Thanks
bug

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by cld517 » Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:38 pm

i can see what everybody is talking about with the head tilting, but i believe the results are still quite obvious..i also agree that more pics are amust, slow them down, size seems fine to me

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by cld517 » Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:57 pm

Dr. AQ,
has the man in the pictures continued to make improvements, has he used the product for more than just the study and also did he use lasers? thank you

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by Jajo » Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:16 am

In all honesty - I have to say, I'm not impressed by that example! :-s


For all the claims that have been made about the positive results this product has achieved, the example photos of the lone participant posted on the website fall far short of the level of expectations that have been built here as of late. I understand he's an example of a worse-case scenario and it appears that some positive result was achieved, but no where near what I what would call cosmetically significant. I seriously hope this isnt thier "best result" :lol: or even the "best result" they have pictures of - if so, I will wait it out and see what the feedback is from guys here that are more willing than I to take the leap of faith.

with that said, heres hoping they've got some "WOW" photos up thier sleeve! \:D/

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by Whoop » Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:47 am

YEAH BABY! :D

Weehooo I'm excited after seeing the photos! I agree the angles are distracting and the lightning makes it difficult to see the improvement. But when you take the first picture and compare it with the 6th, I think one can easily see the positive change :D . Given this is a guy who had already lost a lot of hair, I wonder what will happen with people that have a NW3/4 and use the haircomplex \:D/

I must say I like the new website too, but I'd really love to see more photos and statistical data from the trials taken. I know the website was only partially updated, so I hope the next update gives us this! :) If not, well, I don't care. As long as the complex works I'd give a damn about statistical data :lol:

Thanks again for your time spend here, and also for keeping your word about the website update :)

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by Bombarie » Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:53 am

It`s honestly quied in here! Where`s Jacob?

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by Whoop » Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:04 am

@ Bombarie,

other timezone man ;) Look at the postingtimes ;D

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by p__ » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:38 am

perga wrote:Bug, in the skim serum photo with the woman and a nose sore, what is going on with the jaw? There are obvious lines (almost look like scars) on all the before pictures and none on the afters? Is that the skim serum working or ... ?
I'm pretty sure that photo pertains to the Recovery Serum which is used after laser resurfacing of the skin. In other words, the laser resurfacing is a probably a big part of the successful results, although I'm sure the A&G product helped speed up recovery and improve results. There is just one common page for the Active Serum, Eye Serum and Recovery Serum on the new website right now. If you hover with the mouse over a product image, you'll see the result photos belonging to that specific product. So if you hover over the Recovery Serum, you'll see the woman with the sore on her nose. If you don't hover over a product, the result photos are rotated between all products as it is right now. I guess Dr AQ can give you a definite answer about it anyway.

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by hulihoop » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:53 am

The real pity here is that the photos aren't all taken from the same angle. If A&G had to do that again I am sure they would make sure they were. To me the pity of it is it is making it hard for us to estimate the amount of regrowth. Quite frankly this guy has such a large bald area it would have been best to take two sets of photos each time with his head in the 0 and 3 week position and in the weeks 8 and 15 position which appear to be the same. Then we could examine any hairline regrowth and crown regrowth best. The 5 week photo they use is somewhere in between the ones above and in my opinion is the least useful, the 12 week one is tilted slightly too far forward to see the hairline. All that said (and it's been said here before) I see enough to make me want to try this product. I think some things have been lost in the disappointment over the quality of the photos and perhaps in excessively high expectations.

1. There is clear regrowth along the hairline, particularly visible between weeks 0 and 5 where his hairline actually changes shape and temples fill in. Isn't hairline/temples the hardest thing to regrow?

2. After that it is abit more guess work because the resolution isn't sufficient (and that may just be to get them on the website and streaming like they are) but it appears there is something going on underneath the long wispy "comb over" hairs the guy had. That looks like it is filling in with new growth.

Dr. AQ may have created some of our disappointment himself when he said results show an increased haircount in 3 to 8 weeks. That makes us think it is done at 8 weeks. Is it possible that regrowth continues beyond that as a result of the "reconditioning" of the scalp? Perhaps some follicles are ready to produce hair more quickly than others, even with the kick start provided by the growth factors.

Also for those that say this is cosmetically insignificant (can't remember whether that is here or at regrowth) think again. If those hairs on his head in week 15 continue to grow for a 1000 day hair cycle instead of returning to catagen/telogen much more quickly as miniaturized hairs do then this will be a HUGE cosmetic improvement for this individual. I am surprised we aren't thinking of that. This dude certainly will be able to lose the combover and only have a small crown bald spot. I think some of us maybe had unrealistic expectations for this, admittedly perhaps based on what Dr. AQ has said.

I am a NW 1.5 but diffuse thinner who has lost a lot in 8 months. I for one would be thrilled with a product (with no hormonal sides) that could stop my hair loss in it's tracks. This appears to regrow some hair (even these poorly taken photos show me that) so that is even better. If I filled in even what little this guy appears to I'd be in great shape. My follicles have been active more recently than his I am sure, so perhaps there is the chance I'll fill in even more. That is why, even on the basis of the disappointing photo evidence they've produced so far, I'll be trying this.
Last edited by hulihoop on Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by hulihoop » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:58 am

I should add that one of the reasons the lighting is poorer in weeks 8 to 15 is there is less glare off of bare scalp. If you look at the darkness of his side hair, and for that matter the blackness of the background then the lightest photos are week 0 and 8. To my eyes the others are pretty much the same.

Just trying to play devil's advocate. In no way do I think these are good quality photos and if I were producing pics trying to impress this community I would have religiously followed p_'s protocol for hair loss photos. A&G didn't do that here and are paying the price in skepticism.
Last edited by hulihoop on Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by hulihoop » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:06 am

Haha...I just want to get to the next level of poster. What is beyond "regular poster"? :lol:

One other thing nobody has commented on. This guy has a rather large mole or birthmark on the right side of his head (our left) that you can track through the photos. In week 0 it is clearly in front of his hair line. It is hard to track in every week because of head position but watch as it changes from week to week. It does disappear under hair from week to week.

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by astro_boy » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:42 am

Good point with the mole, I can see it in the week 8 shot but week 12 and 15 I've lost it. Looking at where it should be compared to the side hairline I still can't find it... does that mean hair grew over top? Now I wish these were hi-res!

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by hulihoop » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:53 am

hey Astro,

My guess is it disappears under a combination of new regrowth and then just continued growth but it's hard to tell.

One thing about these photos is there is no doubt that less of the guy's scalp is visible. Is it the result of regrowth or just growth of pre-existing hair that is the question. One thing I have noticed about guys with that level NW. They don't generally buzz their hair down unless they shave with a razor. This guy hadn't done that as he had the comb over/back going. Generally all they have are tiny poorly pigmented hairs that don't grow and a few long comb over hairs. In 15 weeks this guy has now at least got pigmented hair and guys like us looking at the photos and are saying it is hard to guage regrowth because his hair is longer. Yet those tiny hairs don't generally get longer on guys with that NW. Is that an effect of the Hair Complex? If so it is positive.

Whether in this case it was "regrowth" from idle follicles or terminalizaton or whatever of those tiny useless hairs i can't tell. But I bet you the dude in the photo is thrilled either way. As I said in another post, if those hairs are now healthy enough to enjoy a normal hair growth cycle then the Hair Complex did a great job that will be of great cosmetic value for this guy six months to a year down the road.

AND I DO NOT WORK FOR A&G :lol:

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by kokoboy » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:46 am

lulihoop and perga,no offence but i think you both work for A&G

i really hope this is not a scam but everything about it makes me skeptic,when i read that using lasers would make your results a LOT better i couldn't help but think that this is a scam made by the guys that sell lasers on the regrowth site,as for the positive comments on their skin products,c'mon even my little brother can see that they are done by the makers of A&G, April 7 Dr.Al-Qahtani will be presenting at a seminar,i'm going to call right now and book my seat even though i know there would be no seminar :lol: .i'm usually VERY positive and easily believe in new treatments (acell,follica,histogen,intercytex e.c.c.) but this one makes me laugh really hard :lol: ,i'll come back on this thread 2-3 months from now and we'll see who's right :lol:

i couldn't find their product on the allure image website,isn't allure supposed to sell their "miracle" cream?

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by Irishpete » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:59 am

kokoboy wrote:lulihoop and perga,no offence but i think you both work for A&G

i really hope this is not a scam but everything about it makes me skeptic,when i read that using lasers would make your results a LOT better i couldn't help but think that this is a scam made by the guys that sell lasers on the regrowth site,as for the positive comments on their skin products,c'mon even my little brother can see that they are done by the makers of A&G, April 7 Dr.Al-Qahtani will be presenting at a seminar,i'm going to call right now and book my seat even though i know there would be no seminar :lol: .i'm usually VERY positive and easily believe in new treatments (acell,follica,histogen,intercytex e.c.c.) but this one makes me laugh really hard :lol: ,i'll come back on this thread 2-3 months from now and we'll see who's right :lol:

i couldn't find their product on the allure image website,isn't allure supposed to sell their "miracle" cream?
I too am skeptical when it comes to new hairloss products, I have seen many come and go. What gives me hope with A&G is the reviews for their current skin products example below, and kokoboy take a look at the review comments particularly the comments from Allure.

http://www.truthinaging.com/2008/06/rev ... serum.html

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by p__ » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:07 am

hulihoop wrote:2. After that it is abit more guess work because the resolution isn't sufficient (and that may just be to get them on the website and streaming like they are) but it appears there is something going on underneath the long wispy "comb over" hairs the guy had. That looks like it is filling in with new growth.
That's a good point! Perhaps the real results are actually mostly in the things that are starting to grow underneath the long hair which was basically already there. It is impossible to tell because of the low resolution photos. Dr AQ, if something is starting to grow underneath the long hairs, something which would perhaps only show up as a slight shadow in low resolution photos, you would stand a lot to gain by making high resolution versions of those photos available. In high resolution photos we may be able to pick up any small hairs that are indistinguishable in lower resolutions. After all, you have seen the results first hand, and things which are thereby apparent to you could be very difficult to see or interpret for someone just looking at the small photos whithout any detail. It is always easier if you know what you are looking at/looking for, if you know what I mean.

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by hulihoop » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:48 am

Kokoboy,

I most assuredly do not work for A&G. Additionally the people at regrowth are not selling lasers. True OMG will make and sell you a helmet but for the effort involved (I know, I have made one) and the fee he is charging I can assure you he is not running a scam. If you think he is then he is a very poor scam artist as he could make a lot more with less effort scamming something else.

If you want an unbiased review on the A&G skin care line try this from Joanne over at regrowth, who incidentally does not work for A&G or sell lasers either:
Yeah, that's probably about right...2 1/2 years ago at HLH. I posted there as Worried Woman. A lot of the threads I posted on were thyroid-related, but I've since found out I have FPHL too.
Astro_boy, I've ordered the A&G skin serum on Feb 20 and it arrived pretty quickly, 2-3 days. The bottle is not empty, but it's one of those plastic, sealed air-tight pump bottles that give you no indication of how much is left. Probably because they don't want you to know how little is actually in the bottle, or you'd puke that you spent $200 on it. But there's really no way to tell when it will run out. I'm treating it like gold at the moment.

I can cover my entire face with a little more than one pump. It helps if my face is damp because it spreads more easily. On dry skin, it takes more. I'm using it only at night and put it on after washing my face before bed. I don't layer any other products on top of it.

I could see a difference in about 5-6 days. Other people started noticing/commenting around day 12 or 13.

Hopefully I can get 5-6 weeks out of one bottle. I will reorder it.
Sounds like a positive testimonial to me.

This Hair Complex is not a miracle and its not a cure. I think there is way more to it than you suggest and will try it. All I can lose is $200 which I can easily spend in a night out partying. I'll gladly forgo that once to see if this works. You are welcome not to try it if you so chose and come back in 2-3 months and see how those who used it did. It will be May/June and I may or may not have more hair at that time. Only time will be tell. At least I'll be happy I tried it to see. I am sure you will still have your $200 and a hair loss problem which for you is apparently an excuse to have a sour attitude that allows you to look negatively on everything and accuse people of lying and/or doing things they don't actually do. Isn't that great? We'll both be happy :)

Cheers,

hulihoop

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by hulihoop » Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:12 am

p_,

You are right. We need higher res photos. I tried saving them and zooming them but too much resolution is lost. Real high res photos would help. :idea: I actually nominate you to email Dr. AQ and see if he has high res originals that you could analyze for that "undergrowth" (for want of a better word). You could take a real close look and then and post your analysis here and try to post the high res pic here. But I just don't know that it is practical to post a really high res pic here on the internet, especially a streaming one like A&G's because of loading time. I'd trust your assessment as you seem to have an equal mix of optimism and skepticism :lol:

I really do believe if that "undergrowth" is actually new growth that is actually going to have a healthy anagen cycle then this guy is going to have very pleasing results a year down the road. Then again...people can do miracles with photoshop. It would really be useful not only for us but also A&G if higher res photos were available. :|

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by Jacob » Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:11 pm

Bombarie wrote:It`s honestly quied in here! Where`s Jacob?
Quiet, you mean? :twisted:

As I posted elsewhere- I'm not going to try to defend the photo's..see my posts on photos at Regrowth ..but there are supposed to be others coming. I'd really like to see how those who have tried the stuff in the past(the "trialists) look NOW. These current pictures are only of someone under 4 months(!)..and of someone with quite severe hair loss. I do see regrowth, but the pictures need to be of better quality in many different ways.

If Dr. AQ does have higher res pictures (or maybe just posting them would look better than what you can get from the website), he could upload them here. Or send them to me or ? to do that.

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by checkingin » Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:16 pm

Pictures don't show much for 15 weeks. Honestly, this doesn't look good especially with all the press this was getting. The one thing you can say is that they could use much better and more deceptive pictures if this was truly a scam. I'm going to be out of town on the date of the release of the product and was making a mental note to remind myself to purchase. Now, that is not going to be a problem. :-"

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by Jacob » Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:43 pm

I guess maybe instead of "higher resolution" I should have said closer up. I just realized it was someone else who zoomed in on them with photoshop...so that's why they looked fuzzy to me. So I don't know if Dr. AQ would have such pictures or not. I still wonder if they'd be better if they were posted at full size...

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by p__ » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:27 pm

Higher resolution is what we need. Higher resolution = more pixels. Just zooming in in photoshop, your browser or any other application is NOT the same as higher resolution images. Things do not work like on TV or in the movies. You can't take a bitmap picture with so many pixels and zoom in using a program and expect to see more detail. When you zoom in that way, you just resample the image and only get interpolated pixels. You must have access to a high resolution original to be able to zoom in. Moving the camera closer to the subject is not the way to go, since that would alter a lot of other factors in the photography, such as lens angles, lighting etc.

Clearly there must be higher resolution images than the almost thumbnail sized images on the site which are just about 190*150 pixels. That is only 0.03 megapixel!!! We need much more pixels than that. You can easily get ten times that figure even with a standard, non-professional cell phone camera capable of about 3 megapixels. The Canfield VISIA, which is used for these images is actually capable of taking 12 megapixel photos! That would translate to more than 3000*3800 pixels! I wouldn't be surprised if Dr AQ has something up his sleeve for us! Hopefully he can supply the photos in high resolution on the website, at least for download! That should be easy and would give us a perfect chance to see the results!

Dr AQ, if you have any technical problems publishing them, just let me know and I'm sure I can help you out!

EDIT: Oooo! Now it's possible to edit posts! Brilliant!
Last edited by p__ on Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by Jacob » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:36 pm

I thought the picture of the bottle in this thread(see page 1) was actually pretty good. I noticed when I posted it at HLT, it shows up smaller(I posted it as I had gotten it..didn't re-size it or anything).

We've always been able to edit here :lol: It's staying logged in that's the problem..at least for me.

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by p__ » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:49 pm

Jacob wrote:I thought the picture of the bottle in this thread(see page 1) was actually pretty good. I noticed when I posted it at HLT, it shows up smaller(I posted it as I had gotten it..didn't re-size it or anything).
I can explain why if you really want to know :) Anyway, if you go to HLT and click the image, you'll be able to see the full image in a new tab/window.
Jacob wrote:We've always been able to edit here :lol:
Well it's the first time it's possible for me here! I really missed that option in my previous posts. I always notice a typo or two the second after I submit a post. :D :lol:

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by hulihoop » Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:35 pm

You know I have been away from the computer for a few hours and had time to clear my head and think a little more. I am not so sure I am going to try this immediately unless I see more convincing photos. No disrespect, Dr. AQ, but surely you can come up with something better than that out of all the trials run, especially considering the expensive machine you used to take the photos.

Here's hoping the next photos they put up are better. Also I agree with Jacob. It would be great to see photos of what these guys look like now, 6 months or more post treatment.

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by redbird » Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:33 pm

I'm with you hulihoop. I just don't see a whole lot yet to justify $200. I've spent so much money over the years on stuff that sounded good, but was a total waste of money. I definitely will need to see better pictures. At least some pictures by somebody that has hairloss like me (diffuse). Otherwise I will wait until I hear from Jacob and any other early adopters.

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by Dr.AQ » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:18 pm

Greetings everyone,
I am taking all of the suggestions and criticism to heart. I really appreciate the input and would like to ask these questions:
1- Can you post a link of a company(s) or before and after pictures of head shots that you think are better than what we presented at A&G?
2- based of the pictures shown on A&G website, how many think there was no improvement on Mr.A condition and the same results can be achieved by other products?
3- How many believe that someone with NW 6-7 is able to re-grow hair to that length and thickness with other product(s) in the time frame A&G Hair Complex did ?

Update: Mr. A is dating now \:D/

p.s. We will address some of the concerns on our next website update. :D

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by astro_boy » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:37 pm

Hey Dr. AQ,

I know photos are hard to take exactly the same especially since this is your first run at things you probably didn't know what to expect. For me the problem isn't as much the consistency although that is a concern. I think the bigger problem personally is the lack of photos all together. So far we've only seen one trialist and the pictures are very small. You must have had many trialists so why not release the photos already?

I probably will still try the product at launch simply because, well... I *think I did see some growth.. and what else is out there for me.. just Minoxadil and I'd rather try this first.

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by Jacob » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:04 pm

p__ wrote:
Jacob wrote:I thought the picture of the bottle in this thread(see page 1) was actually pretty good. I noticed when I posted it at HLT, it shows up smaller(I posted it as I had gotten it..didn't re-size it or anything).
I can explain why if you really want to know :) Anyway, if you go to HLT and click the image, you'll be able to see the full image in a new tab/window.
I really want to know. In two weeks :evil:
And I did not know it was clickable over there..thanks.

Here's a short Youtube vid on one's experience with the product. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ntVzkapveY

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by bug » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:34 pm

Dr.AQ wrote:Greetings everyone,
1- Can you post a link of a company(s) or before and after pictures of head shots that you think are better than what we presented at A&G?
Sure Dr AQ...scroll through all the pages of this pdf

http://www.histogeninc.com/downloads/st ... summit.pdf

There's about 7 before and after photos

cheers
bug

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by redbird » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:44 pm

I don't find Histogen's pictures all that impressive either.

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by bug » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:53 pm

redbird wrote:I don't find Histogen's pictures all that impressive either.
One safety dose application and 12 weeks later this is the result:
Individual follicular units were counted, and this subject increased the number of apparent hair follicles from 217 to 265. Total hair counts showed an increase from 307 to 360 This is approximately a 20% increase overall.

Show me something else that can do that with just one application in 12 weeks. Im impressed with the pictures compared to everything else out there. Their 5 month update is due this month. Im looking forward to that.

Even if you arent impressed at least you get to see every follicle and judge for yourself. Additionally they arent hiding anything. They are telling us exactly what they are using.

bug

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by p__ » Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:08 pm

Dr.AQ wrote:I am taking all of the suggestions and criticism to heart. I really appreciate the input and would like to ask these questions:
Your willingness to discuss this and your openness to feedback speaks volumes about your commitment! Very commendable! =D>
Dr.AQ wrote:1- Can you post a link of a company(s) or before and after pictures of head shots that you think are better than what we presented at A&G?
Are you asking in terms of quality of photos or in terms of results? My first reaction was to think of the Histogen photos that Bug already mentioned.
Dr.AQ wrote:2- based of the pictures shown on A&G website, how many think there was no improvement on Mr.A condition and the same results can be achieved by other products?
I have a really hard time trying to tell. :-k The photos are so small and the angle changed so much that I can't make up my mind. If I had high res photos and/or photos of more subjects it would probably be much easier to tell.
Dr.AQ wrote:3- How many believe that someone with NW 6-7 is able to re-grow hair to that length and thickness with other product(s) in the time frame A&G Hair Complex did ?
:) Well, since I really can't tell the extent of re-growth from the current photos alone, I consequently don't know what other products would be better. If the results are as good as you described them before, nothing comes close as far as I know.
Dr.AQ wrote:p.s. We will address some of the concerns on our next website update. :D
Looking forward to the update!

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by astro_boy » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:03 pm

bug wrote:
redbird wrote:I don't find Histogen's pictures all that impressive either.
Even if you arent impressed at least you get to see every follicle and judge for yourself. Additionally they arent hiding anything. They are telling us exactly what they are using.

bug
If only they didn't get a lawsuit for it :?

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by redbird » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:19 pm

bug wrote:
redbird wrote:I don't find Histogen's pictures all that impressive either.
One safety dose application and 12 weeks later this is the result:
Individual follicular units were counted, and this subject increased the number of apparent hair follicles from 217 to 265. Total hair counts showed an increase from 307 to 360 This is approximately a 20% increase overall.

Show me something else that can do that with just one application in 12 weeks. Im impressed with the pictures compared to everything else out there. Their 5 month update is due this month. Im looking forward to that.

Even if you arent impressed at least you get to see every follicle and judge for yourself. Additionally they arent hiding anything. They are telling us exactly what they are using.

bug
My biggest problem is that I want to see an overhead shot of different areas of the head. And I want to see the after pictures in the same light, same angle, etc. as has been discussed. I want to see the front as well as the back, which requires 2 different pictures. I basically want p_ suggestions followed, which none of these do. That's why I'm not impressed with any of these pictures.

I also don't care about a closeup picture with individual hair counts. I have no idea what the context is. Maybe that's just an area right next to an area that has lots of hair, and not in the middle of the head of thinning hair. Could make a big difference on increases hair counts. You have to have the context.

I really want to see an overall picture, close enough to see the entire front. And an overall picture to see the entire back given p_'s photographic suggestions. I want an overall view to give me an idea of what the cosmetic changes look like.

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by hulihoop » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:38 pm

I agree entirely with Redbird. I would also love to see a photo of what they look like now...six months to a year after treatment, although I am not sure that any would have been taken.

I also think that for people with different NWs and for diffuse thinners more examples would be good. People like to get an idea of how they would be affected by seeing a similar scenario to theirs and seeing the hair complexes effect on that. For example I am a diffuse thinner. I'd love to know how much it tends to thicken things up. Does it cause a big shed in the process so that, for example, there is less hair in week 8 then week 5 before finally ending up with whatever the result is in week 15? You get the idea. It is a lot easier to evaluate how it might affect you when you see an example of someone whose hair loss looks like yours than it is to extrapolate from poor quality photos of a NW 6.

Dr. AQ, I give you credit for coming up with 6 photos as opposed to just a before and after but unless you have either more examples or better quality photos which show what redbird is asking for then it is really difficult for us to get a handle on what your product can really do. That is a shame for you as it means fewer people will be lining up to buy this product. We really want to believe in this but are conditioned by our collective experience to be very cautious about these things. The product sounds great, but we really want to see what it's capable of.

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by bug » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:47 pm

Hi Redbird

Well you and I differ I guess. To me new follicles are new follicles. It doesnt matter what the angle is or lighting. Ive been posting to hair loss forums since 1993 and I have never seen a photo of a human scalp showing individual brand new follicles.... and thats because nobody else has ever done it! It doesnt need context. Growing brand new hair is a monumental feat and doing so would indicate that this is the best thing discovered so far.

I have also seen hundreds of before and after photos and hundreds of responses complaining about the lighting and angles. I think the best way to show short term results is just to show closeups of the exact same spot(show each individual hair). Subjectivity should be left out.

As for cosmetic results in the longer term it doesnt matter what angle or lighting is used. If the guy in the A&G photos had Brad Pitt hair in the last photo would anybody care about the angle or lighting? While I think its sad that the photos on the A&G site arent consistent, Im willing to bet that if they had been identical in angle and lighting...people still wouldnt be able judge the growth. Without Brad Pitt hair in the after photos, showing very up close very high resolution photos is the best option(eliminates angle and lighting independent variables)

bug

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Re: A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Post by perga » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:03 pm

Haha, no, I don't work for A&G. I'm trying to stay positive. Yes the photos are a bit ambiguous, but I have not given up hope. This guy was very bald before this treatment... if this product had actually grown significant hair in his heaviest MPB zones it would be miraculous. Personally, I think there is some regrowth there, I can't be sure how much because the pictures aren't consistent, but I think disregarding the entire set because of that is being overly judgmental. Let's just hope in the next update there are more convincing evidence, and some pictures of people with less severe condition.

Also, much thanks to Dr. AQ, I really do appreciate you coming here and talking to us.

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