Thymosin beta 4

bocor · Post by **bocor** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:08 pm

Ive been talking with the people at Adistem.com and they say they can formulate a TB4 topical in cream base that is stable for 12 months in a 25gram amount for $58 This sounds really cheap but i think theyre legit.If anyone else is interested.I can supply his email a ddress

bocor · Post by **bocor** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:15 pm

http://www.adistem.com/application/hair-growth.htm

Using autologous stem cell injection in the scalp with very impressive results after 6 months

intricate1 · Post by **intricate1** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:52 pm

I would love to hear your results

bocor · Post by **bocor** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:58 pm

Well, TB4 causes stem cell proliferation in the scalp and that is essentially what the apple stem cells are doing but probablyt not as potent.I will try this when i get some funds together.Not for a month or so can i afford it

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:26 am

Did they say it would work by applying it topically? Is it lipo/nanosomal? At least I don't think you plan on injecting this cream....

bocor · Post by **bocor** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:13 pm

The guy who spoke with the pharmacist told me it could be used topically for AGA.He didnt say if it was liposomal or not

hairsucks · Post by **hairsucks** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 5:03 am

How safe is Tb4? I don't know much about it apart from it's been mentioned over these forums for years, seems a bit like RU in the way people want it but find it hard to get hold of?

Are there any pics of people who have tested it?

chore boy · Post by **chore boy** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:47 am

I think you have better chance of hitting the PowerBall than buying a cream that contains 25 grams of legitimate TB4 for $58. I'll go ahead and extend the benefit of the doubt and say that there may have been a miscommunication, but for the time being, let's take a look at it:

I'm aware of the cost effects of "buy power" and possibly even manufacturing their own TB4, but here's what I understand market price of TB4 to be:

- 1 milligram of TB4 goes for $130
- 25 milligrams of TB4 goes for $1900, or $76 per milligram.
http://www.prospecbio.com/Thymosin/?gcl ... nAodbSI6Iw

I'll go low and call it $50 per miligram. That's $50,000 per gram, and with its impressive 25 grams, that's $1.2 million dollars. Even at a dollar per milligram, it's still $25,000! If it were somehow, someway possible... have you guys ever seen roughly an ounce of a powdery substance? It would literally be a golf ball or two worth of powder... you'd have to have like a 5-gallon jug of lotion, haha. In, you know, a 50 ml bottle of lotion, I think we can all see how it's impossible.

Let's say there was a miscommunication and he meant 25 mg. At $50 per milligram, that would be $1250! Even if they could somehow engineer TB4 for a dollar per milligram (which is what would be neccessary for them to sell you 25 mg for $60), there's no way they would sell it to you at that price.

I'd ask for information regarding how they were able to stabilize the TB4 in a cream. Not saying it can't be reconstituted and stored at room temperature... just sayin' I'd be curious. Who knows... they could be doing it real, real big over there. Unfortunately, it doesn't quite add up, as is.

davetherave · Post by **davetherave** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:14 am

What Choreboy said.

I'm guessing it's 25 grams of carrier cream.

bocor · Post by **bocor** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:16 am

This is not TB4 exactly...If you read on adistems site they have a section detailing their tb4-7 which is supposedly the most potent synthetic analog of TB4 which they are using for injections to stimulate stem cell production in humans.They are also in collaboration with 2 companies who are planning to use it in topicals.1 for hair but wont be out till mid 2010.The guy at adistem told me his pharmacist could make up some in a cream base for topical AGA.He didnt say what the concentration would be but im waiting for email response.I just wish i could afford this NOW.I would order it right awayl.

chore boy · Post by **chore boy** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:19 am

Where's the contact info at?

bocor · Post by **bocor** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:47 pm

bpaspa@adistem.com is the direct email of the guy ive been speaking with.He can tell you how to order

davetherave · Post by **davetherave** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:40 am

Anything new on this?

chore boy · Post by **chore boy** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:01 am

Anyone order it yet?

bocor · Post by **bocor** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:00 am

I will buy as soon as i can afford it

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:01 pm

They're once again not responding to my inquiries. It seems when you try to pin them down..they clam up.

I'm assuming it's the injection they're talking about- those companies who will be using it(which was my question at Regrowth).

chore boy · Post by **chore boy** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:09 pm

They're not responding to my query, either. I implied that I was extremely interested in the product and would likely order it provided they could elaborate a little bit on how they managed to stabiltize the TB4.

TB4 is one of the elusive substances I've always been interested in but have yet to really play with. I ordered real-deal TB4 on at least two occasions I can remember but each of those were one-milligram purchases; not sure if you guys have ever seen one milligram of something but I can assure you it ain't much... like a grain of salt or two. One of the times I had it, I mixed somewhere around 3 ml with 1 mg of TB4 and there's no doubt in my mind that I felt something when I applied it... kinda like an instant stress reliever type of feeling.

However, I did in fact once order a TB4 cream from a Canadian outfit I believe was Krippspharmacy.com. A link I unearthed earlier today from the Regrowth archives to the specific cream in question was no longer operational, although, upon viewing the company's website, their 'Peptide Plus cream' caught my attention and I suspect it may be the one I used.

Also, according to the archives, the percentage of TB4 concentration was purported to be 0.133%, if I'm not mistaken.

perga · Post by **perga** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:19 pm

So these injections are generating new follicles Histogen style? And this product is already purchasable? I can't even keep up with all the new stuff coming out -- kind of gives me hope that we're on track for some breakthroughs soon.

chore boy · Post by **chore boy** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:16 pm

http://thestar.com.my/lifestyle/story.a ... lifeliving

Posted by dude at HLH... smells like Adistem.

chore boy · Post by **chore boy** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:24 pm

http://hk.svensonhair.com/en/index.htm

english site

chore boy · Post by **chore boy** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:28 pm

I don't see a mention of it at the scammish-looking hong kong link I just posted. The original article talks about Malaysia... here's their directory:

http://www.svensonhair.com/

My computer won't let me click on the Malaysian one.

davetherave · Post by **davetherave** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:30 pm

I guess this is for sale now - http://actistem.com/

MANUFACTURED IN AUSTRALIA

Incorporated in Hong Kong in October 2006, ActiStem Ltd. has developed ActiStem™ - a topically applied cream that can activate the Stem Cells present in one's scalp to promote hair growth and thickness, and change the colour of the hair from grey back to its original darker colour.

ActiStem™ contains AdiStem TB4-7™ Peptide - a synthetic peptide analogue of the active region of Thymosin β4.

Thymosin β4, a ubiquitous 4.9-kDa polypeptide of 43 amino acids length originally isolated in 1981 from the thymus gland, is a potent mediator of cell migration and differentiation.

The mechanism by which TB4 acts to promote hair growth is by its stimulatory effects on follicle stem cell growth, migration, differentiation, and protease production.

The ActiStem™ range of products also includes formulas for Osteoarthritis, Corneal healing and Cosmetic applications.

ORDER NOW »

References

Philp D, St-Surin S, Cha HJ, Moon HS, Kleinman HK, Elkin M. Thymosin beta 4 induces hair growth via stem cell migration and differentiation. Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2007 Sep;1112:95-103.

Order Now

ActiStem™ Peptide TB4-7 Cream for Hair Growth

US$53 per 25g Jar
CHOOSE QUANTITY

1 JAR - $53.00 2 JARS - $106.00 3 JARS - $159.00 4 JARS - $212.00 5 JARS - $265.00 6 JARS - $318.00 7 JARS - $371.00 8 JARS - $424.00 9 JARS - $477.00 10 JARS - $530.00

perga · Post by **perga** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:10 pm

What concentration is being used in the study described on the adistem page, and what concentration is the cream being sold at?

Somebody should get this and report back... got some potential imo.

chore boy · Post by **chore boy** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:20 pm

Just got a reply to my inquiry into the TB4-7 cream, with them saying to order it from Actistem. Sadly, they failed to answer my question regarding its stability at room temperature. Any sort of decent answer and I probably would have already placed an order. I admit... I have a soft spot for TB4.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:31 am

I finally got a response as well(I remembered trying to get something out of them some time ago..which you can see in this thread: http://www.regrowth.com/hairloss-forums ... =1&t=24277 )

The cream has been tried for MPB. The English company is doing a trial on MPB with a the peptide in a tonic with botanicals and another Australian company is trying the peptide in a tonic with various essential oils. A plastic surgery group (HT Clinics) in Athens and Rome that specialize in FUE are trying it along with FUE as a cream and is noticing that it reduces the time for patients to get a full set of hair following FUE transplant.

I have given it as samples to a number of individuals as a cream with different stage MPB. What they observed is that it stimulate hair growth wherever hair follicles are still existing. The hair comes out faster, thicker and color goes back to original. Some follicles at the end of their life cycle will come back to life. We have also seen this in individuals partaking in our type II diabetes pilot trial where the investigators are injecting 10mg of peptide weekly subcutaneously. In a bald area where there are no follicles hair will not appear.

We had seen these effects on hair in patients that we gave back their adipose-derived stem cells by intravenous route during trials. When we investigated what the stem cells are secreting to cause this effect on hair with the Australian Proteome Facility we found that TB4 (and the sequence we patented) to be highly secreted, which would account for the effect we where seeing.

I am not an expert on hair physiology but it does have a remarkable effect on hair growth, but it will not do anything in an area where the follicles have died. It is also an extremely safe substance. The small peptide derivative we manufacture has also shown exceptional stability. Our interest is mostly in its unique anti-inflammatory effect and we are running trials with this cream for topical use for osteoarthritis. We are not yet marketing this product but we are happy to supply your group creams through the www.actistem.com website and we would appreciate any feedback from your group.

So it does sound legit..even promising. Chore..I think it was posted before that it needs to be refrigerated? I'll see if I can get clarification on that.

chore boy · Post by **chore boy** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:54 am

That's the thing, though... As far as I know, TB4 must be frozen upon reconstitution and even in powder form. I'm no rocket surgeon, by any means, and they very well may have developed a platform to overcome these restrictions... but still... a little elaboration would be comforting.

chore boy · Post by **chore boy** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:58 am

Lyophilized Thymosin b4 although stable at room temperature for 3 weeks, should be stored
desiccated below -18C. Upon reconstitution Thymosin b4 should be stored at 40C between 2-7 days
and for future use below -180C. For long term storage it is recommended to add a carrier protein
(0.1% HSA or BSA

http://www.biosupply.co.uk/doc.php?id=3228

Guess it does have some stabiiity at room temperature... you can see my concerns, though.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:00 am

There are some Youtube hits on Prof/Dr. Paspaliaris of Adistem:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... type=&aq=f

chore boy · Post by **chore boy** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:02 am

Lyophilized Thymosin b4 although stable at room temperature for 3 weeks, should be stored desiccated below -18°C. Upon reconstitution T beta 4 should be stored at 4°C between 2-7 days and for future use below -18°C.
For long term storage it is recommended to add a carrier protein (0.1% HSA or BSA).

http://www.prospecbio.com/Thymosin_beta-4_7_171/

Same thing...

davetherave · Post by **davetherave** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:14 am

So, would we have to apply this daily? Or once the hair(s) start growing do we stop? Do they need constant stimulation?

Anxious1 · Post by **Anxious1** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:19 pm

rocket surgeon? lol

hairsucks · Post by **hairsucks** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:15 pm

Since I'm not using anything at the moment (apart from lamas shampoo) I'll give this a go, I'll order a few jars.

I think i'll use it with my dermaroller I got ages ago and never used, makes sense since they have been injecting it into the scalp?

hopeful19 · Post by **hopeful19** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:37 am

Hairsucks - Looking forward to your review of the product.

Excited to see if it turns out to be effective

cloud9 · Post by **cloud9** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:52 am

I bought 2 jars and going to dermaroll ( Next best thing to injections ) Anybody no how many times a day you apply it ?

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:53 am

If they don't come with directions...toss 'em. Just kidding

chore boy · Post by **chore boy** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:52 pm

Got a reply to my stability inquiry:

"We have done stability studies up to 6 months and are completing 2 year accelerate stability trials. The product is stable at room temp in the cream for 6 months. You may get more life with it if you store it at 4oC (fridge)."

hairsucks · Post by **hairsucks** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:43 am

I'm just waiting for it to turn up, I might put a pic up before I start it, problem is I shave/buzz (no guard) my hair every week so it will be real short (one weeks growth), the good thing is in 6 months time when I post more pics it will be exactly the same length.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:17 pm

hairsucks..that doesn't sound like a problem to me..considering some of the ways others have taken pictures- let their hair grow out etc

hairsucks · Post by **hairsucks** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:27 am

My ActiStem turned up today, a jar of this stuff is tiny, it's 25g, if you have hair your going to get through this in no time at all, I shave my head so should be easy to spread without losing half of it in my hair.

It's like a tiny jar of moisturiser, same texture and no smell to it (maybe it is!).

Anyway, I'll try and get some pics sorted in a few days, I'll take them Friday so I've got a weeks worth of growth. I can't see a jar lasting over 2 weeks to be honest so I might order a few more, it's not cheap though!

Phil007 · Post by **Phil007** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:16 am

How often do you want to apply it? Every day once? And how long should it last on your head? I guess these are very crucial information. Did you get any information from the company concerning it?

hairsucks · Post by **hairsucks** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:34 am

Phil007 wrote:How often do you want to apply it? Every day once? And how long should it last on your head? I guess these are very crucial information. Did you get any information from the company concerning it?

Yeah it came with some paperwork, It's to be applied once at night, that's all. Even though, I still can't see it lasting much longer then 2 maybe 3 weeks at a push and that's on my shaved head. It's like one of those tiny sample size jars.

intricate1 · Post by **intricate1** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:12 am

So after ordering the actistem what do you do? Can you explain the process from ordering application etc... Thank you

hairsucks · Post by **hairsucks** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:32 am

intricate1 wrote:So after ordering the actistem what do you do? Can you explain the process from ordering application etc... Thank you

It's pretty much what you would expect, you place an order for how ever many jars of this topical TB4-7, It gets shipped from Australia, took about 7 days, as for application it simply states " Please apply a small amount on affected area. Spread while gently massaging. Do this once a day at night."

It's also meant to be stored in fridge 4-8oC.

so I'll be applying on the top of my head every night, I'm also considering using a dermaroller a few times a week for better penetration, although I don't know if it's needed.

hopeful19 · Post by **hopeful19** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:17 pm

Is TB4 a substance which is only beneficial as long as you keep applying it?
Wonder if it would have any interference if used in conjunction with dermapoeitin?

mitcky · Post by **mitcky** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:28 am

hopeful19 wrote:TB4 a substance which is only beneficial as long as you keep applying it?
Wonder if it would have any interference if used in conjunction with dermapoeitin?

Is that true? it's only beneficial as long as you keep applying it??

hairsucks · Post by **hairsucks** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:45 pm

mitcky wrote:
hopeful19 wrote:TB4 a substance which is only beneficial as long as you keep applying it?
Wonder if it would have any interference if used in conjunction with dermapoeitin?

Is that true? it's only beneficial as long as you keep applying it??

Maybe send them an email? but Is this not the case with all topicals? I would imagine so, I'd be happy to keep applying it IF it works,

mitcky · Post by **mitcky** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:12 am

hairsucks wrote:
mitcky wrote:
hopeful19 wrote:TB4 a substance which is only beneficial as long as you keep applying it?
Wonder if it would have any interference if used in conjunction with dermapoeitin?

Is that true? it's only beneficial as long as you keep applying it??
Maybe send them an email? but Is this not the case with all topicals? I would imagine so, I'd be happy to keep applying it IF it works,

Yup...good point

hopeful19 · Post by **hopeful19** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:49 am

Hairsucks - how was the application?
Did it spread easily?

hairsucks · Post by **hairsucks** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:43 am

hopeful19 wrote:Hairsucks - how was the application?
Did it spread easily?

Yeah hopeful19, It does spread very well, It reminds me of Dr Lee's 5% spiro cream, don't know if you ever tried that before, the orderless one? anyway it spreads easy but I do shave my head so most topicals go on easy. It's just like moisturiser.

I'll take some pics tomorrow then again in about 5-6 months time, If I don't see any positive change I won't be trying anything else, I've spent far too much time and money on this type of thing now. I'd rather get on with my life with a shaved head and just wait for the everlasting 5 years till something new and effective hits the market.

As you will see my hair is pretty far gone and it will take a dramatic change to make it possible to grow my hair again.

Pete2 · Post by **Pete2** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:13 am

How do you go about mailing these guys...do they actually respond to questions ie mode of action / safety?

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