A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Baccy · Post by **Baccy** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:44 am

hulihoop wrote: Baccy, like I said to you two days ago....I'd suffer any embarrassment just to get mine to arrive already!!! Unless your neighbors are extremely judgmental or it's Elizabeth Hurley and you are trying to get in her pants or something, who cares what they think? Joking...we all have our insecurities about this, but seriously don't worry. How much of an enigma are you going to be when 6 months from now they see you and you have hair?? Did you think about that yet?

I'll be an enigmatic hairy guy.

I really don't think I'll be getting anywhere near a full head of hair out of this as I'm NW7. Just a thin stubble all over would suffice for me I think.

hulihoop · Post by **hulihoop** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:50 am

Wicked...you'll be another Jason Statham. You'll be able to land more birds than you can handle!!

astro_boy · Post by **astro_boy** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:58 am

Haha Jason Statham my hair loss hero! For real.

Bombarie · Post by **Bombarie** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:59 am

Where can i buy a dermaroller? farmacy?

Baccy · Post by **Baccy** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:13 pm

A Jason Statham amount would be cool.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:01 pm

Bombarie wrote:Where can i buy a dermaroller? farmacy?

See the dermaroller thread.

chore boy · Post by **chore boy** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:51 pm

The itching/tingling wasn't initially noted. After I was using the product for a few days, I thought to myself... "WTF, I stay itchy in the scalp" and then it dawned on me that William mentioned excessive itchiness.

Ryand2 · Post by **Ryand2** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:11 pm

I have a question for anyone thats used the product, or for Dr. AQ himself. I used half a vial earlier, with the intention of drawing it out for two treatments. A few minutes ago I noticed that the vial changed from its original color to a very very bright pink. I panicked, assuming that it was going bad, and just dumped the rest on my head, making it my second application in the past 12 hours. Has anyone else noticed a color change, and if they have, am I right in assuming that it was going bad?
-thanks

perga · Post by **perga** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:18 pm

son of a bitch, mine turned pink too. !@JIIOJOIWjefoiajwefawefawoiejfoaiwef

If that means it has gone bad I am officially PISSED OFF. I have ignored the website indiscretions, and the lack of pictures, plus that iffy packaging... but if 1/10th of my treatment (aka $20.00) has gone BAD because someone failed to mention that this stuff is incredibly sensitive I'm going to be furious.

Ryand2 · Post by **Ryand2** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:22 pm

Exactly! I'd be pissed off to high hell if thats what in fact happened! I really wish the Dr. will come as soon as possible and answer the question!

Did you panic to and use it up like I did?

Ryand2 · Post by **Ryand2** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:24 pm

I will say though, for what its worth, after I applied the portion of the product that had changed color, there was some slight itching on portions of my head. Dont know what that means, but it just seems like somethings up if the dam vial is changing color.

powersam · Post by **powersam** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:29 pm

Melon Collie wrote:I Joined HLH on 08/18/2006 same name, I'm also on Regrowth but I joined not very long ago. I don't post either place very often.....I don't really know if that proves anything though.

I personally will only trust Melon Collies testimony if his avatar gets her baps out.

astro_boy · Post by **astro_boy** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:47 pm

Holy panic button Batman,

It could totally be nothing but I know I'll be keeping mine in the fridge until I'm ready to use. I recommend you guys email the Dr. through the website they reply much faster than here and let us know what he says about it.

hulihoop · Post by **hulihoop** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:04 pm

hey guys, check with Dr. AQ about the color change. Best you email him at A&G and Kimberly will reply to you right away. I am sure the doc will get on it as quickly as he can. In the meantime I suggest not worrying. He said it was okay to stretch treatments out and the stuff would stay stable. No need to assume it's turned because the color changed slightly. And if you are feeling the tingling sensation from it even after it changed color that is probably a good thing.

At least you guys got yours. I'm still waiting and it is killing me. Astro I don't know how you can be so patient but I do respect you for it.

hulihoop

Hogan · Post by **Hogan** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:35 pm

My scalp has never tingled either.

I was wondering if anyone is using saran wrap to hold in the moisture? After I apply my hair complex, I am wrapping my head with plastic wrap for about three hours to hold in the moisture complex. What does everyone think of that?

Hogan

cld517 · Post by **cld517** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:25 pm

astro..
nanominox fms i think is the best minox product i tried and i think i would be better off had it existed when i 1st started minox..results? well i havent had a shed in the year that i'm using it and with regular minox i'd get a shed every 3 months..so i think it stopped or at least slowed the progression od additional loss and i think grew a little..but the service from the company sucks big time..if you can order a few bottles then your better off and make sure you have 1 left when you reorder..yes, at times they're that bad..btw it goes on clean and dries quickly..very hair friendly..

now everyone you freaked me out with this color change thing..this is a picture of all 5 of my bottles..as you can see they are all the same color..you can see which one was used and the unused ones (the one without the metal band wasnt opened..i messed up with the top and rather than just waste more time i fully opened another)..after applying and lasering i put the opened and the one i screwd up with the top in the fridge..they were out for approx. 1 1/2 hrs..the unopened ones were never in the fridge..so as you can see they are the same in color..unless of course they all changed color enroute..but i doubt it..

: 0402090013.jpg (18.86 KiB) Viewed 48365 times

astro_boy · Post by **astro_boy** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:38 pm

hey perga could you maybe post a pic of the color changed bottle next to the regular one so we can get an idea?

thx 517, what I was most concerned with was the stability of the sulfate vs the regular compound. They mention sulfate is not as stable but the liposome protects it to a certain extent but never say how much. I even emailed them about it for an update and all they said was they didn't have one.

Melon Collie · Post by **Melon Collie** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:41 pm

Hogan,
Yes, I've heard about using that method for chemical peels before. It is supposed to increase penetration, thus the depth of the peel. Seems like it may work for this too.

Does it feel like your scalp is completely dry after you remove the saran wrap? I would think it would be after 3 hours.

Are you massaging after you put the saran wrap on like Dr. AQ suggested?

Are you using any kind of LLLT device?

powersam,

Your request has been duly noted by the proper authoritays. Who knows anythings possible!

Ryand2 · Post by **Ryand2** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:37 pm

Look, I dont know chemistry, but I just think that its logical to assume that if the color changed, something inside of the formula caused it change. Now, what would that have been? that is the question

Post by **HairLossFight.com** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:44 pm

Hey all,

I just want to re-iterate to everyone to take pictures! Even if you've already started using the product. Let's make sure that you keep a good documented base-line that you can compare against at the end of your treatment.

And don't forget that you can use my.hairlossfight.com to keep track of your treatment over time by creating an album and uploading the pics. And you can even keep them private if you wish not to share them with everyone. The option is yours when you create an album to either make it public, private, viewable to logged in users only, or viewable by your friends only. I strongly recommend you make use of this, but even if you don't want to, at least take the pics for yourself so that you have some form of objective measure when you're done with the treatment.

If you want to use my.hairlossfight.com, register here: http://my.hairlossfight.com/account/register.php

Dutchhairloss · Post by **Dutchhairloss** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:22 pm

You know what would add credibility?
Refunds...

mm12 · Post by **mm12** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:05 am

hey guys
I just checked mine it is the same color. maybe it is because every time I used the dropper I closed it right away. and after finish applying the haircomplex I put it in a dark cloth inside my fridge (4C) for my next application. Dr. AQ told me on the phone to never leave it open.

powersam · Post by **powersam** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:35 am

Dutchhairloss wrote:You know what would add credibility?
Refunds...

no-one has been using the product for anywhere near long enough to gauge effectiveness so why would he be issuing refunds??

A healthy dose of skepticism is a good thing, out and out fatalistic cynicism on the other hand helps no-one.

Dutchhairloss · Post by **Dutchhairloss** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:04 am

well...
I mean: "use the product, wait 20 weeks, and if there is no improvement, refunds"

Dutchhairloss · Post by **Dutchhairloss** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:11 am

sorry for the double post...

I really REALLY hope that this will help me regain my hair.
I haven't made my order jet, because I want to make sure that it works...

I am a diffuse thinner, with see-scalp-through-hair on the AGA regions...I don't mind having a receding hairline, I just don't like the diffuse thinning. Having a full head of hair is only a bonus to me...
if this treatment works, I will order it and re-order it every half year (or year) to get maximum potential

chore boy · Post by **chore boy** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:53 am

I'm the opposite... I'd rather be diffuse and have an intact hairline.

perga · Post by **perga** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:02 am

Hey, sorry man, I used it this morning. If it changes color though, you will be able to tell... it is obvious.

I hate surprises, and I REALLY hate surprises when it comes to my hair, so I am growing steadily more upset that I've buzzed my head, discontinued topicals I know to be beneficial, and started up this unproven color changing baby penis. I am really hoping Dr. AQ pulls through (and I mean SOON) with these new photographs, and an explanation of why it changed colors that doesn't leave my years of college chemistry saying "huh?"

hulihoop · Post by **hulihoop** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:16 am

Hey Perga,

Don't expect a reply from the doc today. I actually called A&G yesterday wondering why I still haven't received mine yet (I ordered on the 19th) and I ended up getting him on the phone. He mentioned he was going to Mexico for a conference or something. He did say he has every intention of staying on the forum and he did say they are going to put more photos up. I don't know the guy but he was very patient with me and my questions but he did also sound very busy. (I work with a lot of busy, overworked/stressed people so I know what they sound like).

I can't say whether or not the product has changed properties chemically. You are probably right in assuming there has been some type of change if the color changed, although I don't know that we can make the assumption that has reduced it's effectiveness. All I can suggest is that it isn't a good idea to get all bent out of shape about it because that is going to have an impact on your hair. Unlike you I have not used as many topicals - mostly just lasering and emu oil and a healthy diet with a few supplements. I desperately want to get started on the A&G product and find myself getting stressed every day around the time the mail should come. I wish I didn't because that is not helping me and my hair any. Anyway, you've started it now so stay the course, keep calm and optimistic, and wait and see. You should apparently see some type of sign within 3 weeks that something positive is happening. Dr. AQ did say it is most effective on diffuse thinners and you don't look like you have a ton of thickening up to do relative to what a lot of us will require. If you halted the miniaturization and got even a modest amount of regrowth your hair would look stellar so don't worry. Thanks for telling us all about the color change though as it will make me even more careful about storing it and not leaving it open as I apply it when it finally arrives.

Ryand2 · Post by **Ryand2** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:30 am

Just an FYI, I didn't leave my vial open. I used a few Ml's and put the rubber stopper back on and put it back. A few hours later I noticed that the color was different.

Melon Collie · Post by **Melon Collie** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:49 am

Are the people experiencing the color change storing the opened containers in the refrigerator? When I start using mine, I think I'll store both the unopened and the opened ones in the veggie drawer as I think that's a little colder there and out of the light. Just to be on the safe side.

I was just thinking about this. If this product is designed to go on your scalp and left there for 24 hours, I don't think it's going to go bad that easily. I mean your scalp temp is like 98.6 F or something close, right? Also, its being exposed to friction from massage and all sorts of UV light and potentially the LLLT light that many are going to be using.

I think the color change is oxidation. I wonder what makes it pink to begin with though? Could be that flower. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

Melon Collie · Post by **Melon Collie** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:41 am

i found this on this web page http://www.mdidea.com/products/new/new052paper.html

A climber growing to 12 ft (4 m) that is deciduous (honeysuckle, L. caprifolium) or semi evergreen (jin yin hua, L. japonica). Has paired oval leaves, yellow-orange (honeysuckle) or yellow-white (jin yin hua) tubular flowers, and red (honeysuckle) or black (jin yin hua) berries.

That is likely were the pink color is coming from.

hulihoop · Post by **hulihoop** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:49 am

Ok...I'm ready to give up on this stuff. Yet another day without it arriving. I think I am destined not to use it.

Would someone explain to me how people in Europe can order it on March 24th and receive it no later than April 1st and someone in Canada can order on March 19th and still be waiting on April 2nd? I do know that it has got into Canada successfully because someone from Calgary has received it so customs apparently isn't the issue. Maybe I'm just not meant to use it or have hair

Astro if you got yours today then I think that is the case.

Ryand2 · Post by **Ryand2** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:07 am

melon collie- good find
Now i'm just waiting for an offical resposne from AG, I e-mailed them earlier and am just waiting to hear back. I will post the response when I get it.

Hogan · Post by **Hogan** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:28 am

I think you guys are making a big deal out really nothing with this color issue. Just because it changes color doesn't mean a whole lot. There could be any number of factors that cause it to change color. It doesn't necessarily mean that it has gone bad. You would have to be a biochemist to determine that is has gone bad. If nobody doesn't get any results at all after 8-10 weeks, then we can start talking refunds. Until then, this is just noise.

kamui · Post by **kamui** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:44 am

Would Jacob be kind enough and ask William how he stored his?

Post by **HairLossFight.com** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:53 am

hulihoop wrote:Ok...I'm ready to give up on this stuff. Yet another day without it arriving. I think I am destined not to use it.

Would someone explain to me how people in Europe can order it on March 24th and receive it no later than April 1st and someone in Canada can order on March 19th and still be waiting on April 2nd? I do know that it has got into Canada successfully because someone from Calgary has received it so customs apparently isn't the issue. Maybe I'm just not meant to use it or have hair Astro if you got yours today then I think that is the case.

Hey Hulihoop, I'm in Canada as well. West Coast. Whenever I order any products I always cross my fingers and hope I get it, because customs is basically hit and miss in our country. I have come to the conclusion that they are completely unreliable. Your order may be stuck there.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:59 am

kamui wrote:Would Jacob be kind enough and ask William how he stored his?

I would..but he has yet to even respond to my last bunch of questions...

Baccy · Post by **Baccy** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:28 am

There was a 'Sorry you were out' card waiting for me when I got home from work this evening. I think that it must be the AGHC because I don't think that I currently have anything else incoming. I'm in UK by the way. The 'too big for letterbox' was ticked but 'needs to be signed for' wasn't. I can't believe that A&G would ship a product of this value without at least requiring a signature. It could be that the postman just forgot to tick that box. Did anyone else have to sign for their AGHC?

I won't be able to pick it up from the Post Office for a couple of days yet due to work commitments.

astro_boy · Post by **astro_boy** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:47 am

Nothing for me yet either, got a package I thought was it but ended up being something else. It's a little slow yes, but doesn't meant it's still not coming... I've dealt with much worse. I also prefer to not need signature because I don't get mail delivered to my door and if a signature is required it means I have to drive to the post office and they hold it an extra day.

Anyway, I'll check back tomorrow. Way too much panic flying around here for me.

hulihoop · Post by **hulihoop** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:18 pm

Hey Astro,

No panic on my end but a healthy amount of frustration. You are the most patient guy I know. I just seem to have a gripe with inefficiency and Canada Post ranks near the top in that area.

Hopefully ours arrive tomorrow.

James · Post by **James** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:24 pm

Melon Collie, I love your profile pic. Always brightens up my day.

Post by **HairLossFight.com** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:15 pm

Hi everyone. I just setup live chat in the My.HairLossFight.com section. If you all want to converse with each other live, sign-up for your My.HairLossFight.com account. Please use the same nickname as you used for your account in these forums.

You can sign-up for your My.HairLossFight.com account here: http://my.hairlossfight.com/account/register.php.

Once you sign-up, login and setup your profile. This part of the site if very facebook-like. It's basically a social network for hair loss. So please upload a picture (it can be anything... since hair loss is personal and most of you probably don't want to use a faceshot, you can upload a cartoon or something else). This is important because unless you upload a picture your icon won't show up in your friends' profiles. Take a look around when you're in there. Ask me if you have any questions.

You can get into the chat room by clicking on 'Chat' in the menu at the top of the page.

This is very beta, so there may be bugs, but I thought that since so many of you are talking here, you my want to have a live chat with other members.

I will login to the chat at 10:00pm Pacific Time tonight. I may be there throughout the day on and off as well.

Enjoy!

hulihoop · Post by **hulihoop** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:14 pm

Hey Morph,

I think you might be right. Somebody at customs might have opened the package and seen "Human Fibroblast Conditioned Media", scratched his head and asked his boss, who then scratched his head and asked someone else. Somewhere along the chain some knuckleheaded bureaucrats put their limited brainpower together and decide they can't let it in until they figure out a policy on it. That will take years. My guess is the product is either held up in customs while the bitter comedy I've protrayed plays out or it's already on it's way back to A&G. I mean I know Canada post is bad but the pony express could have got it to me sooner. My hairloss has been quite aggressive and I really want to get on this to give it a try. I am quite comfortable with risking the $200. It is unbelievably frustrating coming to the realization that I may not even be able to try it.

If this is in fact what ends up playing out is there anyone living near the Buffalo/Fort Erie or Niagara Falls border that would be willing to accept shipment of it and then either mule it across the border for me or hold it for me till I can come and get it?

Plan B might just be to forgo this treatment and try out the PRP treatment but I would prefer to try this first.

I'm afraid plan C is going to end up being embracing baldness

hairquest · Post by **hairquest** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:19 pm

still no packages in the mail box! 14days still counting!
from Canada!

driver52 · Post by **driver52** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:23 pm

Hulihoop I wouldnt worry about it too much its coming.. I live in Edmonton and I havent recieved mine either yet. It usually takes 1-2 weeks to get shipments from the states. If its not here tommorow it should be early next week.

Im frustrated about my hairloss too as I have diffuse hair loss and it is now at the brink of me not being able to hide it anymore. Im 22 and have been losing since 19 and worry about hairloss far more than anything else. I had a bad shed since January and started lasers about a month ago and it has not noticeably slowed my shedding. I hope we get this product soon and see positive results!

astro_boy · Post by **astro_boy** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:36 pm

The hair game is like watching grass grow... literally. That and you can't get anything you want up in Canada without ordering it online, which always takes long so I'm used to it. The packages are coming I'm pretty sure, it just slow... San Diego is just about the farthest point in the U.S. possible from Ontario... Mexico is actually closer... If anybody in Canada got theirs already I would assume they're from Vancouver or Calgary which is a bit closer.

Anyway I'm way too pressed for time with an insane amount of finals to be worrying too much about it. I really want to try the stuff out but It'll get here when it gets here. I'm sure my hair will hold up for a few more days.

hulihoop · Post by **hulihoop** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:15 pm

Hairquest, where in Canada are you from?

Driver, your loss sounds kinda like mine. See my profile for the details. If this stuff can really stop loss and thicken me up even 20% (which Dr AQ said was what those trialists who said they were unsatisfied regrew) then I would be laughing and would consider wearing my hair "up" again instead of flat down which I hate to cover scalp. Astro seems to have the same loss as well. You dudes are all pups though and I feel bad for you for that as I am 46 and only started to notice thinning last November. Whatever, as far as I am concerned I am too young to go bald. I am definitely NOT finished with my hair yet!

Astro-boy, good luck on your finals!!

Lets all hope the pony express arrives tomorrow...

bug · Post by **bug** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:20 pm

So some of you may be aware of this platelet rich plasma treatment http://doctorgreco.blogspot.com/

What I find interesting about it is that in a very different route it is doing something I imagine is similar to the AGHC. Both methods are introducing a spectrum of growth factors produced by human cells(A&G uses foreskin fibroblasts to secrete GFs into a media and this Greco technique uses your own blood cells to extract and concentrate the GFs).

So what is really interesting is here is another treatment that contains within the spectrum of GFs ones that are believed to be detrimental to hair growth(TGFbeta, IL-6, IL-1, EGF...etc) yet seems to be having some success. A few days ago on Dr Grecos site(link above) I wrote a couple comments but Im not sure he will see them or reply...(my nickname there is "relic") Here they are:

http://doctorgreco.blogspot.com/2009/03 ... l#comments

relic(bug) said...
Hi Dr Greco

This is very interesting stuff. I was wondering if you could comment on what seems to me to be TGFbeta GF paradox. On the one hand you state "The main growth factors contained in these granules are transforming growth factor beta (TGFbeta)..." while in another blog post you state something that is well known to many hairloss researchers and mentioned in various papers that i have read: "While some growth factors are known to inhibit hair growth such as TGF beta...".

Thanks

March 31, 2009 8:47 PM
relic said...
Hi Dr Greco

I wanted to add one more point. Isnt EGF another GF you would want to avoid? Dr Cotsarelis has just formed a new company called Folica that is looking at wounding combined with EGF inhibitors as a potential cure for hairloss. It would seem to me that with EGF the wounds would just heal back to skin rather than differential into hair. Anyway it seems pretty promising.

Thanks

Another interesting point is that Dr Greco also uses a dermaroller along with his injections. He believes the wounding is necessary to kick things off.
I was considering the same thing with the AGHC. I was thinking of doing some home microdermabrasion in conjunction with the hair AG hair complex(I havent decided to buy it yet).

So this brings me to another question for Dr AQ.

Dr AQ do you think(just an educated guess is fine) that some form of gentle wounding like microdermabrasion would make the AG hair complex work better?

Thanks
bug

hulihoop · Post by **hulihoop** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:30 pm

Hey Bug,

Aren't lasers supposed to increase TGF-b to a small degree as well? People have had success with them as well, though not to the degree these growth factor rich processes apparently do.

I have ordered a dermaroller and plan on using it with the AGHC and my lasers. I haven't figured out the exact protocol I'll use yet, and of course I don't yet have the HC or roller. I wonder which will arrive first?

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:59 pm

bug..I wonder if the "take home" product Dr Greco is talking about will be even more like A&G's. Unless you send them blood samples or something.

I'm considering the dermaroller as well. Have been prepping with NanoFibrin for a few weeks now.

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