A&G Hair Complex from A&G Skin Solutions

Regrowth-agent · Post by **Regrowth-agent** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:09 am

Another first time poster drawn here by this product.

You have all asked Dr A some great and pertinent questions, his answers have been helpful but far from satisfactory. I agree with Joanne's point about the FDA bull and am willing to accept it. However...

The roll-out of this product goes from bad to worse. The pictures on the A&G web-page are not at all impressive - we've seen those kinds of pictures many times from snake-oil merchants - small, low res, different angles, longer hair. For myself I can only say that I saw nothing on those pictures - the subject simply had longer hair after 15 weeks of growing it and the angle had changed. I certainly didn't see anything remotely approaching 40% regrowth. We were led to believe there would be more pictures of a higher standard to follow - NOW we are told there are no more pictures and those to follow are OUR pictures, if we pass them along. This is a quote from A&G triallist William on the other thread -

I did not see any other trialist but every two weeks or so, I visit the clinic for head shots. The nurse told me one time while she was setting up the camera that she've seen good results from the product. They won't release the pictures to anyone, I already asked.

Why won't they release them?

The science behind the graph is laughable, as pointed out other posters above. Count your hair-fall? That's not a scientific approach, it's not even statistics, it's mumbo-jumbo.

All this, combined with the novelty value of the ingredients and little insight into how it actually works, spells something to hide. Every piece of information which emerges - every graph, every photograph - heightens the disappointment.

I have no axe to grind with A&G - I would be delighted if their product worked and am very happy there is product research and development going on away from the awful bind of the Big Three treatments, which have so many potential and real side-effects that they are useless. If this product needed more preparation work then A&G should have taken the time to do it - as it is, something's not right because all of the above is the standard operating MO of a confidence trick - obsfucation, intentional or unintentional mistakes etc - we hired the wong guy, for Christ's sake.

I'm hoping A&G and the members here who are intent on trying the Hair Complex prove me wrong. I'm desperately hoping so.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:25 am

My understanding..on the clinic photos..is that A&G would be the ones to "post" them..on their site. The same with the Allure Image(the laser place) photos.

I hope Kimberly just "misspoke" there.

nate · Post by **nate** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:40 am

Wow, you said that really well regrowth agent

I just don't know what to say about the product either, i've spent the last month getting pretty excited by the possibilities, but we still don't really know what the main ingredients in it are. Is it the same as the skin serum?

Can the people who have bought so far chime in and tell when you ordered from them? And please keep all of us informed of everything that is happening. I want to know how long it takes to have it delivered, how the stuff feels after application, etc. After like 5 treatments you should have something significant to say, even if it is negative. If shipping is as fast Dr. AQ says there could be a significant report from someone in the next 2 weeks. Hopefully, that will be before the FDA gets a chance to shut things down.

Of course there is the chance that some people are shills for the company and could give false reviews, but i think those people will end up getting a heavy dose of karma at some point in life.

One of the things I am encouraged by is the good review that truthinaging.com did for A&G's skin serum. They mentioned it was overpriced but very effective. That gives me the impression that they are not scam artists or snake oil salesman. Now maybe they will end up having a completely ineffective product, but I think that is different from "snake oil" or "scam."

"Scam" is androvex who takes your money and gives you nothing, "Scam" is those companies that are just selling you extremely overpriced minoxidil and tricking you into thinking it is more. For me I call those MANY other things that I've tried that didn't work simply "ineffective" but maybe work for some. Stuff like minox, revivogen, spiro, fluridil, flutamide, RU, I feel like i've tried them all. I think some people on hairloss boards get really really angry when they try a product that doesn't work and have to call it a scam.

On HLH everybody says "why don't you just stick to the proven Big 3?" the answer is simple, we've tried it and it doesn't work or it works but with severe side effects (at least for me)

astro_boy · Post by **astro_boy** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:42 am

So long as the product itself is ready I'd rather it be on the market than not, even if the photos and statistical data isn't quite there yet. Bottom line is even if the best photos and data showed up the product still may or may not work well enough for me. The only way I know for sure is if it's on the market and available for me to try, without that all the data is useless anyway. In this industry we see a lot of products with lot of potential not make it to market or experience seemingly never ending delays (RU58841, Neosil, Lipoxidil, ASCJ-9, etc...) so at least A&G launched on time, I'll give them that much. I'll be able to find out soon enough if it works or not.

nate · Post by **nate** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:39 am

astro boy,

when did you put in your order?

did you get a confirmation email from paypal and/or a&g?

Did they say how long shipping would be? etc.?

astro_boy · Post by **astro_boy** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:32 pm

Put in my order on the 19th. Dr. AQ stated earlier in the thread that A&G doesn't send out confirmation emails unless it's a special case. I got the standard PayPal purchase confirmation email the same day. Dr. AQ also said shipping to me (Canada) takes 3-4 days although I always expect longer from the post office.

I buy a fair amount of items online, all pretty standard procedure so far.

Subb · Post by **Subb** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:17 pm

same situation over here. I ordered yesterday, and only a confirmation through paypal. i live in europe so it's gonna take a bit longer i assume.

p__ · Post by **p__** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:37 pm

nate wrote:...i've spent the last month getting pretty excited by the possibilities, but we still don't really know what the main ingredients in it are. Is it the same as the skin serum?

That was answered in this thread. It does not contain the same growth factors as the skin serum.

nate · Post by **nate** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:13 pm

thanks p_

so we don't know what factors are in it, just that they are not the ones in the skin serum. Don't suppose you know which page of the thread it is on? I don't really want to go check all 24 pages but . . .

p__ · Post by **p__** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:30 pm

nate wrote:Don't suppose you know which page of the thread it is on? I don't really want to go check all 24 pages but . . .

It's just a few pages back, on page 22. It was answered once before that too. You can click on Dr AQ (or any user) to search for all his posts...

justthin · Post by **justthin** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:54 pm

Hi all, I just have a few observations/questions..

1) If you look at all other proven or unproven hair treatments, they all seem to say you have to continue use to keep hair(thus continuing the flow of profit). Why would A&G not do the same if this is such a scam?

2) The results they (A&G) are claiming seem to come quick, whereas the other proven and unproven treaments say wait at least 6 months to notice improvements. Again, not so smart for profit continuing. why would they not say the same if they are scammers?

3) With the reslts coming so fast, it would take up to 15 weeks tops probably alot less for this copmany and their product to either become an amazing treament or another scam. SO in that short time , the years of work done by A&G would be out the window as we would all know they are scammers.Why do this?

4)AS for usage.basically 10-20 days of use and then no more needed. Once every other day as per instructions..again , not so good for profits. Commen sense makes you see that more product used equals more product needed and sold...creating again more profits. Why would they not make the treatments like the others..everyday ,2x a day for 6 months to a year if they were in it for profits or scamming?

Ok so their website and testimonials,pics etc.. are basically garbage. Well guys, they are DR's not marketers ,relying on a less then helpful webdesigner. Kim, I believe is trying her best to answer the flood of questions but she is not a Dr. or privy to the info the docs have on what makes up this product. So we cannot blame her if all her answers are not perfect or 100% correct.

Someone also stated that Dr.AQ has atricles and papers published so his english must be perfect and it isn't..ever heard of spell check or proof reading? I think that answers that question completely. I am sure that the magazines and websites etc.. where he is published have their own proof readers as well as the good Dr. However, on this website I really don;t see the need to proof read or correct grammatical or spelling errors, have you not all seen some of the posts on here with mistakes..it happens!

As for not letting us in on the secret...geeze poeple would you give away the main secret of your new inventions or products? NO! Why should the Dr.? ALso , he is trying his best to stay within certain guidelines so that the FDA doesn;t step in and investigate or create the need for years of FDA approval and testing. Makes sense to me!Heck we should be thanking him for getting this product out to us in need quickly and bypassing the red tape...IF it works!

All in all I find no faults or holes in anything the Dr. or the website (due to the webmaster not being helpful) in this product so far. Now I am skeptical as you all are and to me there is no real proof of this being the product it seems to be. I can only hope its all its cracked up to be. If 200 dollars(free shipping which costs at least 30bux) so basically 170 dollars..is all it takes to save my haair amazing!! We will all soon see in a few weeks.

Sorry for the long rant!!

Bombarie · Post by **Bombarie** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:45 pm

Does anyone has his A&G now?

bobthebuilder · Post by **bobthebuilder** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:47 am

Hi Dr.AQ,

There is nothing special about your product I believe, still has some great growth agents.

It has been used in skin care for some time now (please correct me if I am wrong).

Your active agent: Nouricel MD (Human Fibroblast Conditioned Media).

KEY INGREDIENTS Of This Anti Aging Product:
NouriCel MD® is a proprietary blend of human growth factors:
NouriCel MD components:

• Transforming Growth Factor Beta (TGF-B)
• Vascular Endothelial Growth Factor (VEGF)
• Hepatocyte Growth Factor (HGF)
• Keratinocyte Growth Factor (KGF)
• Interleukins (IL-6, IL-7, IL-8)
• Soluble collagen
• Matrix proteins
• Antioxidants
• Basic Fibroblast Growth Factor (bFGF)
• Insulin-like Growth Factor 1 (IGF1)
• Platelet-Derived Growth Factor AA (PDGF-AA)
• Transforming Growth Factors (TGF-B2 & B3)
• Granulocyte Monocyte Colony Stimulating

I really would like to believe it is a miracle cure/growth agent, I will wait until I see some more photos. When dealing with growth agents there are many factors to take into account.

No harm meant by the post but when using growth agents it is smart to know what your putting on your head.

Regards,
BTB

Regrowth-agent · Post by **Regrowth-agent** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:02 am

justthin wrote

If you look at all other proven or unproven hair treatments, they all seem to say you have to continue use to keep hair(thus continuing the flow of profit). Why would A&G not do the same if this is such a scam?

What does it remind you of? Remember A&G are serving their Hair Complex out on a first come-first serve basis. Fair enough, but they have raised the issue of finite stock. This translates to Roll up, roll up, get it while you can, folks, a once in a lifetime opportunity to grow back your hair - the medicine men used this technique in the old West - get it while stocks last. The price of $200 feeds into this too, as a come-on - much more expensive than other treatments but not at all expensive IF IT WORKS. But we can't know that because, as you say, the pics and testimonials are not satisfactory.

I am NOT saying A&G is a scam or their product is a snake-oil. I hope it works and, looking at what's gone into it, I think it could be very useful for maintenance if regrowth results don't meet the claims made. But their approach and marketing his fallen foul of every area of consumer trust possible.

I hope very much those who are using it keep us updated on their progress. And, for the record, if I had $200 it would be on its way to A&G right now because $200 is nothing compared to the effect my hair loss is having on my quality of life.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:12 am

Bob..you may want to read the entire thread. I know it's long..but that issue has already been discussed and addressed. Caregen also uses "growth factors" in their products. My guess is that they too use different ones for their hair products.

p__ · Post by **p__** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:12 am

Justthin, good post! I agree with many of the things you said. Regrowth-agent does have a valid point, though.

I think the best way for A&G to tackle this is to release better photos and clearer evidence. That would make everyone happier.

@bobthebuilder

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but you seem to believe that Human Fibroblast Conditioned Media (HFCM) is a specific ingredient. It is not. It simply means that the products contains growth factors produced by human fibroblasts. It does not detail which of all the possible growth factors produced by fibroblasts are in the product or in what concentrations. Nouricel MD is one example of HFCM. There are many other. Or are you claiming that the hair complex specifically contains Nouricel MD? In such a case, please state your sources!

justthin · Post by **justthin** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:43 am

Thank you "p". however, I am not so sure about Regrowths point.
...Where and how many times on this forum alone has DR.AQ actually said they will run out of supplies or that its a first come first serve basis? I believe he said that it takes two days to make 100ml of the solution but does not say they would ever run out. If that was his selling point then it's a terrible one..lol Also, why only onthis forum...he doesn;t post anywhere else.

The only time I have read that its a first come first serve basis (which is common sense) is in the email sent to me by Kim when I inquired about my shipping.I don;t believe that it has been pushed on us at all by anyone from A&G. And why this forum only even if it was? Not too smart marketing wise.

I truely don;t think regrowth has a valid point here, most products if not all products will ship on a first come first serve basis as supplies take time time to recieve at store fronts as well as products take time to make. Alot of people are taking the time to hear feedback from others who purchased it, they do not seem too worried about them running out. I could go on but agian I think the point is clear..they are not triyng scare tactics here at all...at least I see no proof of this.

I believe we have all become very skeptical of anythign new or successful due to years of being scammed and seeing less then satisfactory results. I perosnally think that A&G is new to the hairloss world and not so FORUM savvy as most poeple on here and that is where there short commings arise from. It actually makes me feel better. It helps me believe that they are not some old forum member trying to make a quick buck and knowing how the hairloss world works...it functions on forums!!Whereas A&G seem to function in the real world with result orientated work.

p__ · Post by **p__** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:06 am

I think that the point regrowth-agent is trying to make is that the current situation in no way excludes the theoretical possibility that it is an attempt to make a quick buck with promises of instant gratification. Just to be perfectly clear, I'm not expressing that opinion at all and I mean no disrespect to Dr AQ. I'm just saying I can understand that someone would consider that possibility given the price, claims, lack of good photos and somewhat incomprehensible graphs. And as far as the first-come-first serve-thing concerns, I'm with you. That is how every normal business operates. What would the alternative be? Highest bidder? A lottery? Reverse order?

Dr AQ even said he specifically did not foresee a shortage, if I'm not mistaken. I'm also with you on most of your other points and conclusions.

Once again, I really hope an there will be an update to counteract all this needless speculation.

justthin · Post by **justthin** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:15 am

p__ wrote:I think that the point regrowth-agent is trying to make is that the current situation in no way excludes the theoretical possibility that it is an attempt to make a quick buck with promises of instant gratification. Just to be perfectly clear, I'm not expressing that opinion at all and I mean no disrespect to Dr AQ. I'm just saying I can understand that someone would consider that possibility given the price, claims, lack of good photos and somewhat incomprehensible graphs. And as far as the first-come-first serve-thing concerns, I'm with you. That is how every normal business operates. What would the alternative be? Highest bidder? A lottery? Reverse order? Dr AQ even said he specifically did not foresee a shortage, if I'm not mistaken. I'm also with you on most of your other points and conclusions.

Once again, I really hope an there will be an update to counteract all this needless speculation.

I agree it does not exclude his point. I would think that posting alot of FAKE or NOT, B/A pics and clever marketing stragaties would have been a better way of making regrowths point more plausible. The fact that they don;t have this is a double edge sword I guess..it can go either way.

I should recieve my product by tomorow I believe , latest wed. I will start with a before pic and try and document my progress if any throughout the following weeks. I know most people will appreciate it and I will try my best to follow through.

stan21 · Post by **stan21** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:36 pm

Can this stuff be used with Revivogen?

Whoop · Post by **Whoop** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:25 pm

Had an answer from Kimberly about the 'over all growth' statistic:

Dear x,
The over all growth was done by dividing the bald area into sections, and hair count was performed before using A&G Complex, and then the same areas were examined for regrowth after using the A&G complex. Given each area, we noticed an increase in hair regrowth per area. We then combined the areas of the entire head of an individual and determined total regrowth. This was repeated on all of the participants. The average re-growth was 41% (over all growth).

Thank you,

Kimberly,
Customer Care
A&G Skin Solutions Inc.
www.agskinsolutions.com

I think I got the idea now, but to be sure I send here another question:

Thank you very much for this answer. I think I'm getting the idea finally, hehe. Just to make sure (I'm very sorry about asking once again, but I just want to be sure before drawing any conclusions), can you please say if I'm right with the next example?

Lets saay a man has a bald area (lets take the crown only for this one), but the bald area has still 40 hairs on it. That same area is then divided into 4 areas with 10 hairs each. The A&G haircomplex is then used and causes 5 hairs to regrow on each of the 4 areas, giving them 15 hairs total (so 15 hairs per divided area). You then take these 4 areas together again and so you have 60 hairs. This would mean the total regrowth on the head is 20/40 = 50%?

I want to ask, because in this example 50% sounds like a lot for regrowth, but visually it will not make much difference if these 20 extra hairs appeared or not (or at least, I think not). Especially on bald areas where there are maybe even less hairs then 40, I really question the fact if 41% regrowth is visible.

Or am I wrong with my example and is 41% added to total hair count on the entire scalp (so also nonbalding areas)?

I'm giving her quite a hard time I must say, if she answers me this one too she really deserves a higher paycheck (Hi Dr. AQ

).

Regrowth-agent · Post by **Regrowth-agent** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:45 pm

justthin & P_

Apologies.

First come first serve becomes vital in a situation where supply of product is finite or limited and the pressure is to buy before supply runs out. I had based my last post on the understanding that this product had a limited production run. I thought I had read that on this thread - however, going back over the thread I can't find any reference to it so I apologise to other posters and Dr A.

As you know there's a lot of scepticism about this product on other forums - possibly I read some misinformation there.

The criticisms about the general marketing still stand.

I sincerely hope I haven't dissuaded anyone from trying Hair Complex - I think it's worth taking a chance if you have the money to spare - as a previous poster stated, you can spend that on a Saturday night.

justthin · Post by **justthin** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:00 pm

Regrowth-agent wrote:justthin & P_

Apologies.

First come first serve becomes vital in a situation where supply of product is finite or limited and the pressure is to buy before supply runs out. I had based my last post on the understanding that this product had a limited production run. I thought I had read that on this thread - however, going back over the thread I can't find any reference to it so I apologise to other posters and Dr A.

As you know there's a lot of scepticism about this product on other forums - possibly I read some misinformation there.

The criticisms about the general marketing still stand.

I sincerely hope I haven't dissuaded anyone from trying Hair Complex - I think it's worth taking a chance if you have the money to spare - as a previous poster stated, you can spend that on a Saturday night.

no worries Regrowth..how's the nano treatin you? any results?

Regrowth-agent · Post by **Regrowth-agent** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:35 pm

I'm happy with the nano-minox, yes, it's given me good maintenance and even a bit of regrowth. It's horribly expensive though and pink in colour. It was a big relief for me to stabilise my loss after losing so much on Rogaine foam - I know peope have varying opinions but for me that stuff was a hair-killer. And it was hard to go back to Sinere after the whole Flutagel disaster - but I think they meant well, it just went wrong for them.

I'm gonna shut up about A&G until folk start trying it and posting their opinions, I have my fingers crossed for everyone that the Hair Complex will meet expectations and that the launch is just a blip.

wasabi · Post by **wasabi** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:24 pm

I ordered this when it came out on the 20th of April.
I live in japan... so it'll probably come by next week.
I'll update everybody on my progress and experience with it.
I intend to use it with my cheapass laser thingy I have.

Dr.AQ · Post by **Dr.AQ** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:04 pm

Hello everyone and thank you so much for all of your comments and concerns. I like this forum because I believe many here are sincere and willing to accept other's opinion without passing judgements. I agree A&G is not big when it comes to marketing and managing a website

. However, its been always our strategy to let our products do the talking for us. Do you know that when we start selling A&G Active serum and the Eye serum, we did not show any b/f pictures for one year. Once people tried them, our sale went up substantially. We always say A&G is about getting the job done and not using fancy packaging, marketing strategies and advertisements.
some quick answers:
1- we are not going to run out of supply, but there might be some delays.
2- the study we performed was done through our collaborators who are in the hair restoration business.
3- I am here because I was invited to participate and answer questions, not to make a quick buck. This is the first time for me to be in a forum or any internet community. If I haven't used the A&G Hair complex myself, I would not participate in this forum.
4- statistics and pictures are important and we are looking into ways to better present them and making them clear and easy to read. ( I will get my "Yeahh baby" from P__ sooner or later

)
5- the youtube video is NOT A&G commercial or have anything to do with A&G. I do admit that A&G have its followers and fan base ( we call them friends)

To keep you updated with production and shipping. We are shipping on the first come first serve basis. I have to admit that we did not expect the huge international demand. I know many forums and internet communities in europe and asia knew about A&G Complex way before the people here. We wanted to offer free shipping to our international customers because we offer this to our local customers and we didn't want to discriminate. However, we did not expect custom to be an issue. We are doing great progress and I believe, by next week at most everyone will get their package.

I was looking at different threads on this site and noticed that this thread is the longest. Can anyone confirm that? can this be the longest thread ever recorded in this forum.

Good night ..

Post by **HairLossFight.com** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:31 pm

Hi Dr. AQ

I'd like to thank you for your participation and willingness to take questions from the community!

And yes, this is indeed the longest thread we've had here. Clearly you've sparked some interest!

justthin · Post by **justthin** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:42 pm

Dr.AQ wrote:Hello everyone and thank you so much for all of your comments and concerns. I like this forum because I believe many here are sincere and willing to accept other's opinion without passing judgements. I agree A&G is not big when it comes to marketing and managing a website . However, its been always our strategy to let our products do the talking for us. Do you know that when we start selling A&G Active serum and the Eye serum, we did not show any b/f pictures for one year. Once people tried them, our sale went up substantially. We always say A&G is about getting the job done and not using fancy packaging, marketing strategies and advertisements.
some quick answers:
1- we are not going to run out of supply, but there might be some delays.
2- the study we performed was done through our collaborators who are in the hair restoration business.
3- I am here because I was invited to participate and answer questions, not to make a quick buck. This is the first time for me to be in a forum or any internet community. If I haven't used the A&G Hair complex myself, I would not participate in this forum.
4- statistics and pictures are important and we are looking into ways to better present them and making them clear and easy to read. ( I will get my "Yeahh baby" from P__ sooner or later )
5- the youtube video is NOT A&G commercial or have anything to do with A&G. I do admit that A&G have its followers and fan base ( we call them friends)

To keep you updated with production and shipping. We are shipping on the first come first serve basis. I have to admit that we did not expect the huge international demand. I know many forums and internet communities in europe and asia knew about A&G Complex way before the people here. We wanted to offer free shipping to our international customers because we offer this to our local customers and we didn't want to discriminate. However, we did not expect custom to be an issue. We are doing great progress and I believe, by next week at most everyone will get their package.

I was looking at different threads on this site and noticed that this thread is the longest. Can anyone confirm that? can this be the longest thread ever recorded in this forum.

Good night ..

Welcome back Dr.AQ!

I had a feeling that you are more of the let the product speak for itself kind of company. I hope others can see that as well. In fact Dr.AQ if you had of posted pics and testimonials they would call this a scam ten times more then they are now. Hopefull yhte product will speak for itself as you said.

One question though, Have you given this complex to any forum members , inparticular one called choreboy to test? He says you have and I haven't heard any feedback from him at all.Nor have I seen any posts stating the product works. The most I have heard is he says it;s no miracle cure. Can you give us all some confirmation on this please.

I know itshard to walk the fine like with the FDA and all the questions being asked by so many people towards you on this forum...but can you try and answer some of the main ones.

I have a feeling someone inthe early stages of MPB possibly diffuse thinners willbe the best responders..just my opinion. We are all hoping for that "YEAAA BABY!!" from p__ as well !

On a side note...the graph has no timeline as far as I can see.Also,the pics you show on the site are so hard to tell if its just his natural hair growth cycle and it's even hard to tell if he is doing the old comb over from front to back or back to front...can you clarify. I looked at the pics and I did notice that areas with no hair near his temples did get some hair regrowth...check it out guys and take a close look..at any angle you can see the temples and it went from nothing to something.Please tell I am not seeing things..lol

perga · Post by **perga** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:38 am

That's it!!! I'm buying it!

Man I hope this works!

nate · Post by **nate** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:52 am

so is that a "no" on any new pictures?

Dr.AQ · Post by **Dr.AQ** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:03 am

Good morning everyone..

Morphollica : Thank you for the info. I think this is the longest thread through the entire hair loss communities and not just this one. Jacob must be going nuts now.

Justthin: Thank you for the support. let me answer your questions:
1- I don't know who is choreboy and I don't think he received a trailist package from us.
2- The guy in the picture has very few hair and his hair does not grow long, He tried rogaine and other treatments in the past and with no results. I have to admit that when we first met him, we knew he will be the perfect candidate. My partner said, if we can grow hair on him, we both need to quit our day jobs. The long thick hair in the pictures are real, he never had this type of hair for the last 12 years. His follicles were weak and had a scalp condition. When we asked him for a statement after the treatment, he said " I use gel now"

. we are monitoring him now and we will upload a picture of him soon. We all know when you are bald, it does not matter what angel or lighting you use in a picture, it will show.
3- the graph is a six month period study.
4- thinning hair will respond better that complete bald NW7. Remember if you have follicles they will grow hair. Also, remember, prevention is better than cure. No one here is commenting on the 72% of prevention. Its important!!

have a good day everyone, I will stop by again tonight..

justthin · Post by **justthin** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:43 am

Dr.AQ wrote:Good morning everyone..

Morphollica : Thank you for the info. I think this is the longest thread through the entire hair loss communities and not just this one. Jacob must be going nuts now.

Justthin: Thank you for the support. let me answer your questions:
1- I don't know who is choreboy and I don't think he received a trailist package from us.
2- The guy in the picture has very few hair and his hair does not grow long, He tried rogaine and other treatments in the past and with no results. I have to admit that when we first met him, we knew he will be the perfect candidate. My partner said, if we can grow hair on him, we both need to quit our day jobs. The long thick hair in the pictures are real, he never had this type of hair for the last 12 years. His follicles were weak and had a scalp condition. When we asked him for a statement after the treatment, he said " I use gel now" . we are monitoring him now and we will upload a picture of him soon. We all know when you are bald, it does not matter what angel or lighting you use in a picture, it will show.
3- the graph is a six month period study.
4- thinning hair will respond better that complete bald NW7. Remember if you have follicles they will grow hair. Also, remember, prevention is better than cure. No one here is commenting on the 72% of prevention. Its important!!

have a good day everyone, I will stop by again tonight..

Thank you again Dr.AQ for your response and contribution to this forum! Also, Thank you for answering my quesitons. I do have a comment about the 72% prevention..BYE BYE PROPECIA!!!lol

Have the first shipments gone out yet? I am in Canada and was one of the first to order on the 19th. I have yet to recieve a confirmation of delivery email but I believe you said that we might not get that email.It is the 24th today so I am expecting a package from A&G soon if not today!

Thanks again DR.AQ! Your input speaks volumes!

hulihoop · Post by **hulihoop** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:24 am

Thanks Dr. AQ. As a recent diffuse thinner with still good coverage I am happy to hear that diffuse thinners generally respond very well. There has been a lot of talk from forum members about regrowth, hair counts and cosmetic results. Many of questioned the cosmetic value of 40% regrowth in various scenarios. I can tell you my situation 40% regrowth would put me back to teenage years so I am really hoping its true!

Justthin, I am in Canada too and like you ordered on the 19th. I did email Kimberly and she told me I was among the first to order and the product was ready to ship. That was on Friday the 20th. I still don't really expect my product to arrive until later in the week, perhaps Wednesday or Thursday as Dr. AQ said 4-5 days for Canada and there are always customs hold ups. I am hoping I can start with my Friday laser session.

Good luck to everyone trying the Hair Complex and thanks Dr. AQ for joining us here. Hopefully you are planning to stick around for the next couple of months while we all monitor results.

Subb · Post by **Subb** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:08 pm

Dr AQ.

could you please answer this question?
i have a laserhelmet only i have to do it in 3 parts (not enough lasers to do everything at once)
which situation would you suggest:

1.
Wash hair
Laser 1 part (15 min.)
Apply serum (1 min.)
Massage (5 min)
Laser same part (5 min.)

Laser next part (15 min.)
Apply serum (1 min.)
Etc.

OR

2.
wash hair
laser 3 parts (each part 15 minutes)
apply serum
massage (5 minutes)
laser each part again (each part 5 minutes)

i'm already happy with just a 1 or a 2

(just to safe some time)
if you suggest another method, please let me know.

thanks in advance,

Subb

perga · Post by **perga** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:06 pm

Hey Doc, one little question...

If I do not start the treatment the same day as I get it, should I refrigerate the bottles? Can they go bad?

cld517 · Post by **cld517** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:24 pm

dr.AQ,

this is a repeat of Subbs question..which way would you think is best? if you're unsure is it possible that you could ask this question to Allure directly? they have experience using your product along with lasers so they would probably know best. in addition it's not likely that very many people who are or will be lasering even live with in the area of where Allure is located, so they wouldnt be undermining their business but instead would be helping us as well as you out and even themself (they answer..we follow their advice..in turn achieve the best possible results <thats assuming that the product works well

>) that in turn helps sell your product as well as very well might bring a little more business to them..win for all!!) thank you let me know your opinion and whether or not you'll ask directly

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:59 pm

Not sure about it being a record..but it IS a lot of posts

Dr.AQ · Post by **Dr.AQ** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:00 pm

Greetings everyone..
let me go straight to the questions:

Our first shipment will be leaving tomorrow, you ask why? 75-80% of the orders were from Europe and Asia. Because of the number of shipments heading overseas, customs requirement halted our shipments. Another issue was packaging, we found some defected boxes (few) and we had to inspect all of them and confirm that they meet A&G standards ( A&G quality control is very tough). This is standard for us, just to make sure everything reach our customers at optimum condition. We are sorry for the delay but we are shipping them express to make up for the timing.
Confirmation emails are sent by Paypal, if you did not receive any confirmation from Paypal, please contact us. We DO NOT send emails or tracking numbers, we figured its better to spend the money on fast shipping than giving out confirmations.

Subb : option two (2) is fine. Just don't allow long time between the sessions.

perga : please store it in a cool and dark place (4C)

cld517 : I designed the laser treatment for allure and trained the people there. What makes Allure laser very effective is the fact its a high quality laser and covers the entire head. In addition, it carry a sensor that turn the machine off incase of uneven exposure. We are planning to take this method nationwide before the end of the year. I am not familiar with the laser helmet, but the general idea is to prep the scalp before applying the complex. We found that 15 min is enough to prep the scalp and allow for more complex to go through. The 5 min. that follows the treatment is to ensure whatever left on the scalp get absorbed. Another small facts, the head temperature is always a little below the body temperature because its up and exposed. Laser bring it to 37-38C optimum temperature for cell activity.

Jacob : Come on! you hold the record of the longest thread ever recorded in a hair loss forum. SPEECH SPEECH SPEECH !!

Ok to celebrate Jacob's victory, here is my gift to all of you :

Thymosin Beta 4 Induces Hair Growth via Stem Cell Migration and Differentiation
DEBORAH PHILP a , SHARLEEN ST-SURIN a , HEE-JAE CHA a , HYE-SUNG MOON a , HYNDA K. KLEINMAN a , AND MICHAEL ELKIN a
a Cell Biology Section, NIDCR, NIH, Bethesda, Maryland, USA
Address for correspondence: Hynda K. Kleinman, Ph.D., Cell Biology Section, NIH, NIDCR, Building 30, Room 433, 30 Convent Dr. MSC 4370, Bethesda, MD 20892. Voice: 301-496-4069; fax: 301-402-0897.
hkleinman@dir.nidcr.nih.gov
Copyright 2007 New York Academy of Sciences
KEYWORDS
cell migration • hair follicle growth • angiogenesis • wound healing • stem cells • cell survival • inflammation • gene expression • laminin-5 • proteases • zyxin • endothelial cells • thymosin beta 4 • keratinocytes • MMPs • TIMPs
ABSTRACT
Abstract : Thymosin beta 4 is a small 43-amino-acid molecule that has multiple biological activities, including promotion of cell migration angiogenesis, cell survival, protease production, and wound healing. We have found that thymosin beta 4 promotes hair growth in various rat and mice models including a transgenic thymosin beta 4 overexpressing mouse. We have also determined the mechanism by which thymosin beta 4 acts to promote hair growth by examining its effects on follicle stem cell growth, migration, differentiation, and protease production.

ENJOY!!

bobthebuilder · Post by **bobthebuilder** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:04 pm

Dear Dr.AQ,

1) Could we find out where the human stem cells are coming from? Adult or Baby?

""Stem cells can also be found in small numbers in various tissues in the fetal and adult body. For example, blood stem cells are found in the bone marrow that give rise to all specialized blood cell types. Such tissue-specific stem cells have not yet been identified in all vital organs, and in some tissues like the brain, although stem cells exist, they are not very active, and thus do not readily respond to cell injury or damage.

Stem cells can also be obtained from other sources, for example, the umbilical cord of a newborn baby is a source of blood stem cells. Recently, scientists have also discovered the existence of cells in baby teeth and in amniotic fluid that may also have the potential to form multiple cell types. Research on these cells is at a very early stage.""

2) Is there any chance of Cancer or HIV transmission?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4465717.stm

3) What methods are in place for this not to occur and assure us?

Regards
BTB

Dutchhairloss · Post by **Dutchhairloss** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:52 am

Dr. Aq,

seeing the reasons behind using a laser before using the serum, I wonder if the cheaper alternative of laser therapie, massage, would help significantly too?

A scalp massage "loosens" the skin, raises the temperature of the skin and enhances bloodflow.
would you recommend 15 minutes of scalp massage prior to using the serum instead of a laser (for those of us who are students, and thus poor;))

bug · Post by **bug** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:45 am

Dr.AQ wrote:Greetings everyone..
Ok to celebrate Jacob's victory, here is my gift to all of you :

Thymosin Beta 4 Induces Hair Growth via Stem Cell Migration and Differentiation
DEBORAH PHILP a , SHARLEEN ST-SURIN a , HEE-JAE CHA a , HYE-SUNG MOON a , HYNDA K. KLEINMAN a , AND MICHAEL ELKIN a
a Cell Biology Section, NIDCR, NIH, Bethesda, Maryland, USA
Address for correspondence: Hynda K. Kleinman, Ph.D., Cell Biology Section, NIH, NIDCR, Building 30, Room 433, 30 Convent Dr. MSC 4370, Bethesda, MD 20892. Voice: 301-496-4069; fax: 301-402-0897.
hkleinman@dir.nidcr.nih.gov
Copyright 2007 New York Academy of Sciences
KEYWORDS
cell migration • hair follicle growth • angiogenesis • wound healing • stem cells • cell survival • inflammation • gene expression • laminin-5 • proteases • zyxin • endothelial cells • thymosin beta 4 • keratinocytes • MMPs • TIMPs
ABSTRACT
Abstract : Thymosin beta 4 is a small 43-amino-acid molecule that has multiple biological activities, including promotion of cell migration angiogenesis, cell survival, protease production, and wound healing. We have found that thymosin beta 4 promotes hair growth in various rat and mice models including a transgenic thymosin beta 4 overexpressing mouse. We have also determined the mechanism by which thymosin beta 4 acts to promote hair growth by examining its effects on follicle stem cell growth, migration, differentiation, and protease production.

ENJOY!!

Dr AQ why did you quote this? Everyone in the hairloss forums knows about TB4 and has known about it for over 6 years. This research was originally published in 2003. Remember my last post where I stated I had a 7 AA peptide made? It was the 7AA segment of the 43 AA TB4 polypeptide used in this study by Dr Klienman. Roughly 20 of us tried it and it never worked. Regenerx the IP owner of TB4 never pursued it for hair growth but stuck with wound healing. It was later licensed out to an Asian company called Lees Pharm but it was unsucessful in humans and they shelved it. I have to say Im a little dissapointed. You yourself said that mouse studies dont translate to humans when asked about growth factors such as tgf-beta and here you present a study done on rats that I know doesnt work in humans. I know this from 1st hand experience as well as 20 other friends that the AA sequence LKKTETQ doesnt work in humans. I was probably going to buy your complex today but now Im not so sure. Im very dissapointed

Here is the entire study which is available for free(it mentions the 7 AA sequence for anybody else who wished to try it)

http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/reprint/03-0244fjev1.pdf

The FASEB Journal express article 10.1096/fj.03-0244fje. Published online December 4, 2003.

Thymosin β4 increases hair growth by activation of hair
follicle stem cells

Deborah Philp, Mychi Nguyen, Brooke Scheremeta, Sharleen St-Surin, Ana M. Villa,
Adam Orgel, Hynda K. Kleinman, and Michael Elkin
Cell Biology Section, National Institute of Child Health and Human Development, National
Institutes of Health, Bethesda, Maryland 20892
Corresponding author: Hynda K. Kleinman, Ph.D., Cell Biology Section, NIH, NIDCR, Building
30, Room 433, 30 Convent Dr. MSC 4370, Bethesda, MD 20892. E-mail:
hkleinman@dir.nidcr.nih.gov

ABSTRACT
Thymosin β4, a 43-amino acid polypeptide that is an important mediator of cell migration and
differentiation, also promotes angiogenesis and wound healing. Here, we report that thymosin β4
stimulates hair growth in normal rats and mice. A specific subset of hair follicular keratinocytes
in mouse skin expresses thymosin β4 in a highly coordinated manner during the hair growth
cycle. These keratinocytes originate in the hair follicle bulge region, a niche for skin stem cells.
Rat vibrissa follicle clonogenic keratinocytes, closely related, if not identical, to the bulgeresiding
stem cells, were isolated and their migration and differentiation increased in the
presence of nanomolar concentrations of thymosin β4. Expression and secretion of the
extracellular matrix-degrading enzyme matrix metalloproteinase-2 were increased by thymosin
β4. Thus, thymosin β4 accelerates hair growth, in part, due to its effect on critical events in the
active phase of the hair follicle cycle, including promoting the migration of stem cells and their
immediate progeny to the base of the follicle, differentiation, and extracellular matrix
remodeling.

The mature hair follicle is a complex miniorgan that has a tightly regulated growth cycle.
During postnatal development, the follicle undergoes successive phases of active hair
shaft production (anagen), apoptosis-driven regression (catagen), and a quiescent phase
(telogen) (1). During the anagen phase, active hair growth involves cell proliferation in the
proximal follicular epithelium, followed by invasion of the elongating follicle into the
subcutaneous tissue, differentiation of the epithelium at the base of the follicle, and formation of
hair matrix cells, which proliferate and generate a new hair shaft. Then a regression phase
(catagen) of the hair growth cycle ensues, during which the lower part of the follicle undergoes
programmed cell death and involution (13). At this point, the follicle enters telogen, the resting
period. The cycle is then repeated. The ability of hair follicles to constantly renew is ensured by
the presence of the multipotent stem cells, which, upon division, generate two types of daughter
cells. Some of the daughter cells retain the same multipotent phenotype, while others become
rapidly dividing transit-amplifying (TA) cells, which provide differentiated progeny for the
regeneration of the lower follicle at the onset of each new cycle (4, 57). The bulge region of the
follicle, located close to the insertion of the arrector pili muscle, has been identified as a stem
cell niche (510). At the onset of anagen, bulge-localized, multipotent stem cells or their
daughter TA cells migrate to the base of the follicle to further differentiate to matrix cells and to
produce a new hair shaft (6, 7, 9, 10). Interestingly, cells emanating from the bulge region
migrate downward to repopulate the hair matrix and also migrate upwards to replenish the skin
epithelium and may therefore contribute to wound healing processes (9).

Thymosin β4, a ubiquitous 4.9-kDa polypeptide originally isolated from bovine thymus, is a
potent mediator of cell migration and differentiation (1116). It was identified as a gene upregulated
four- to sixfold during early endothelial cell tube formation and found to promote
angiogenesis. It is present in wound fluid (17), and when added topically or given systemically, it
promotes angiogenesis and wound healing (13). Thymosin β4 elicits cell migration through a
specific interaction with actin (18, 19). Recently, we demonstrated that a central 7-amino acid
(LKKTETQ) actin binding domain has both angiogenic and wound healing activity while other
domains are inactive (20). In angiogenesis and in wound healing, thymosin β4 acts by
accelerating the migration of endothelial cells and keratinocytes and increasing the production of
extracellular matrix-degrading enzymes (14, 19). Thymosin β4 also has anti-inflammatory
activity (11, 21).

The process of hair growth utilizes many cellular and molecular mechanisms common to
angiogenesis and wound healing, namely migration, differentiation, and remodeling of the
extracellular matrix (911, 2225). In the present study, we investigated the role of thymosin β4
in hair growth in different in vitro and in vivo experimental models. Thymosin β4 promotes hair
growth in normal rats and mice. A specific subset of follicular keratinocytes in the mouse skin,
which originates at the bulge region, expresses thymosin β4. The temporal and spatial
distribution of these keratinocytes parallel the pattern reported for the stem cells and their
daughter TA cells at the different stages of the hair cycle (9, 10). We isolated clonogenic
keratinocytes from the bulge compartment of the rat vibrissa follicle, further characterized them
as an immediate progeny of the stem cells, and found that these cells express high levels of
thymosin β4 when cultured in vitro. We show that thymosin β4 promotes hair clonogenic
keratinocyte cell migration, as well as secretion of the extracellular matrix-degrading enzyme
matrix metalloproteinase 2 (MMP-2). We also found that thymosin β4 initiated early
differentiation of these cells based on reduction in the expression of keratin 15, a specific marker
of epidermal stem cells (26). Taken together, our results suggest that in addition to its known
angiogenic and wound healing effects, thymosin β4 is a naturally occurring modulator of hair
growth that acts by stimulation of stem cell migration, protease production, and differentiation.

METHODS

Hair growth
Thymosin β4 was prepared by the FDA (Bethesda, MD). Thymosin β4 and the peptides at 0.05%
(w/v) in 0.2% polyacrylic acid hydrogel (from Mahnaz Badamchian, George Washington
University School of Medicine) were applied topically to the dorsal lateral areas of shaved rats.
For the rat studies, thymosin β4 (0.05%) was applied to a dorsal/lateral area of the skin and the
control vehicle was applied to an opposing adjacent area on the same animal (3-5 rats/dose). For
the mouse studies, 8-wk-old wild-type C57BL6 mice (2 mice/dose) with their hair in telogen
phase, as identified by their pink backskin color (27), were shaved and treated separately with
either thymosin β4 (0.02%) or control vehicle. The skin samples were fixed in 4%
paraformaldehyde, embedded in paraffin, and 5 μm sections were stained with Masson-
TriChrome. The number of hair follicles in the histological sections was counted by two different
blinded observers with at least three sections of different fields counted per rat (3-5 rats/data
point). These experiments were repeated twice with similar results. Microphotos were taken at
x32 for the rat skin and x66 for the mouse skin with a Zeiss Stem SVII dissecting scope.

Induction of hair cycle

Depilation was used to induce hair growth in resting follicles, as described previously by Paus et
al. (28). The dorsal skin of 8-wk-old female C57BL/6 mice at the telogen phase (as identified by
their pink skin color) was depilated using hair remover wax strip kit (Del Laboratories,
Farmingdale, NY), leading to synchronized development of anagen hair follicles. Skin tissue
samples were collected at day 0 (telogen), day 4 postdepilation (early anagen), and day 9
postdepilation (late anagen; 5 mice/time point). The samples were fixed in 4% paraformaldehyde
and processed for histological examination and immunostaining. This experiment was done
twice with similar results.

Immunohistochemistry

Immunohistochemical staining was performed on 5 μm paraffin sections using a polyclonal
rabbit antibody raised against full-length thymosin β4 peptide sequence (from Allan Goldstein,
George Washington University School of Medicine). Primary antibody was detected using Dako
EnVision Kit (DakoCytomation, Denmark), and counterstaining was performed using
hematoxylin.

Immunofluorescence

After culture on glass coverslips (12 mm; Carolina Biological Supply Company, NC), cells were
fixed with 4% paraformaldehyde in PBS with 5% sucrose. The cells were incubated with
antibody raised against thymosin β4 peptide, followed by staining with secondary CY3-
conjugated donkey anti-rabbit antibody, diluted 1:200. Samples were mounted with
GEL/MOUNTTM (Biomeda Corp., Foster City, CA) and visualized with a Zeiss LM 510
confocal microscope.

Isolation of clonogenic keratinocytes (hair follicle stem cells)
Clonogenic keratinocytes were isolated from Fisher 344 rat vibrissa follicles as described
previously by Kobayashi et al. (29). After the animals were killed, the upper lip containing the
vibrissal pad was cut, and its inner surface was exposed. While the animals were under a
dissecting microscope, vibrissa follicles were dissected and plucked from the pad. A fragment of
the follicle containing the bulge region was cut off and incubated for 30 min in
collagenase/dispase solution (1 mg/ml; Roche Molecular Biochemicals) at 37°C. The epithelial
core was detached from the collagen capsule and further incubated in 0.05%
trypsin/collagenase/dispase solution (30 min, 37°C) to facilitate the dissociation of epithelial
cells. Isolated cells were cultured in keratinocyte-SFM medium, containing EGF (2.5 μg/500
ml), bovine pituitary extract (25 mg/500 ml; Invitrogen, Carlsbad, CA), and 10% FCS. The
seeding density was 1000 cells/35 mm plate, and 60-80 colonies per plate were formed. For the
proliferation assay, 5000 cells were seeded per well in 96-well plates, and proliferation was
assessed using the CellTiter AQueous Cell Proliferation Assay Kit (Promega, Madison, WI).
This experiment was repeated three times with similar results.
Western blot

Cells were lysed by addition of RIPA buffer, and equal protein aliquots of cell lysates were
separated on 4-12% Bis-Tris NuPAGE gels (Invitrogen, Carlsbad, CA). Proteins were transferred
to a nitrocellulose membrane (Invitrogen) and detected using polyclonal antibodies against
mouse keratins (Covance Research Products, Richmond, CA). K15 antibodies were obtained
from Covance and NeoMarkers (Fremont CA). The membranes were stripped and reprobed with
anti-GAPDH antibody (Research Diagnostics, Flanders, NJ), and densitometry measurements
were taken using NIH Image Software with keratin 15 normalized using GAPDH.

Migration assays

Migration was studied in 48-well Boyden chambers using 8-μm pore polycarbonate, PVPF,
membranes (Poretics, Livermore, CA) coated with 50 μg/ml of collagen type 1 (BD Biosciences,
Bedford, MA) diluted in keratinocyte-SFM that contained 72 mM HEPES buffer. Cultured
clonogenic keratinocytes were harvested using trypsin and resuspended in keratinocyte-SFM
containing 1% bovine serum albumin factor-V and 25 mM HEPES-buffer. The bottom chamber
was filled with increasing amounts of thymosin β4.. Fibroblast-conditioned medium was the
positive control. Keratinocytes, 30,000 cells/well, were added to the upper chambers and were
incubated at 37°C with 5% CO2 for 4.5 h. The membranes were then fixed and stained with Diff-
Quik (VWR, Bridgeport, NJ). Cell migration was quantitated in three random microscopic fields
of triplicate wells. Cells were acquired at x10 magnification using a Nikon Optiphot-2
microscope for counting. The assay was repeated twice.

Motility

Clonogenic keratinocytes were plated on 35-mm dishes. Migration was monitored for 20 h using
a Zeiss inverted microscope. Digital images were collected using a CCD camera (model 2400;
Hamamatsu Photonics) at 10-min intervals, stored as image stacks, converted to QuickTime
movies, and analyzed using MetaMorph Group 3.5 software (Universal Imaging Corp., London,
UK). This experiment was repeated twice, and six cells were tracked in each experiment.
Zymography
Clonogenic keratinocytes were cultured for 9 days. After 16 h serum deprivation, the cells were
incubated for 6 h in the presence of increasing concentrations of thymosin β4. Aliquots of the cell
lysate and resulting conditioned medium were analyzed for gelatinolytic activity, using Novex
Zymogram Gels (Invitrogen). The band intensity was determined by densitometry measurements
using NIH Image Software.
Statistics
The InStat program was used to determine P values. All data are means ± SD.

RESULTS
Thymosin β4 promotes hair growth in rats and mice
While studying wound healing in rat skin, we unexpectedly observed visually and at the
histological level increased hair growth at the wound margins 7 days after topical treatment with
thymosin β4 (unpublished observation). In this study, we have shaved the skin of healthy rats and
applied thymosin β4 topically on one side of the shaved area and the control vehicle on the
opposing lateral side of the same animal. After 7 days of treatment, we observed an increased
number of anagen-phase hair follicles in the skin areas treated with thymosin β4 (Fig. 1a and d).
The number of anagen follicles was approximately twofold greater than in rats treated with
vehicle alone. The increased number of hairs in anagen phase was retained with continued triweekly
treatment over 30 days. Within 14 days of treatment cessation, the number of active hair
follicles decreased to control levels. We next tested whether thymosin β4 would promote hair
growth in 8-wk-old C57BL6 wild-type mice. Animals used in this experiment have all of their
hair follicles in the telogen stage as judged by their pink skin color (27). The mice were shaved
and thymosin β4 was applied topically on the shaved area as described in Methods. Control
animals were treated with vehicle alone. As shown in Fig. 1c and f, thymosin β4-treated (but not
control) animals displayed quick hair regrowth. Histological examination confirmed the
thymosin β4-induced activation of the hair follicles (Fig. 1b and e).
Thymosin β4 protein expression by a subset of hair follicle stem cells
We first explored the spatial and temporal pattern of endogenous thymosin β4 expression in hair
follicles during depilation-induced, synchronized adult hair cycling in C57BL/6J mice. We
wanted to correlate the observed effects of thymosin β4 administration with possible functional
involvement of endogenous thymosin β4 in hair growth. Low levels of thymosin β4 protein were
observed in follicles at the telogen (resting) phase, before depilation (Fig. 2). In these follicles,
thymosin β4 expression was confined to a small number of cells residing in the bulge region, at
the level of the insertion of the arrector pili muscle. Hair follicle transition to early anagen (day 4
after depilation) was associated with an increased number of thymosin β4-expressing cells in the
bulge region (Fig. 2). Moreover, some thymosin β4-positive-stained cells were detected in the
lower part of the follicle, between the bulge and bulb area (Fig. 2, arrowhead). At late anagen
(day 9 after depilation), a significant number of the cells located in the lower follicle (matrixsurrounding
part of the outer root sheath) expressed thymosin β4 both in the nucleus and
cytoplasm. The sebaceous gland was stained at all stages, due to nonspecific absorption as found
by others with several different antibodies. Thus, with the progression of the hair growth cycle,
thymosin β4-positive cells, initially detected only in the bulge, were observed at the bulb area,
suggesting that they are migrating from the bulge region. These data show that the temporal and
spatial distribution of thymosin β4-expressing cells was similar to the pattern proposed for the
hair follicle stem cells and their daughter TA cells, i.e., emanating from the bulge and migrating
downward to give rise to matrix cells that subsequently generate the hair shaft (9, 10).
Cultured rat vibrissa clonogenic keratinocytes express thymosin β4
We studied rat vibrissae follicle keratinocytes from the bulge region, representing the stem cell
population (10, 30), to determine if isolated stem cells express thymosin β4. Previously, hair
follicle stem cells have been identified as bulge-residing keratinocytes with a high in vitro
clonogenic potential (58, 10, 29-31). Although hair follicle stem cells are not fully characterized
in terms of specific markers, they preferentially express keratin 15 (K15) (26). We isolated
clonogenic keratinocytes from the rat vibrissa bulge region and found that the isolated cells were
highly clonogenic (Fig. 3a). These cells were positive for the stem cell marker keratin 15 as well
as for keratins 5, 6, and 14 (Fig. 3c), also known to be expressed by bulge stem cells (32).
Furthermore, these cells lacked keratin 10 (Fig. 3c), a known early marker of terminal
keratinocyte differentiation (4, 31). Moreover, when cultured in vitro, these cells were able to
move with an average velocity of 0.43 μm/min, a typical mobility rate reported for epidermal
stem cells and their daughter TA cells (33). Based on these characteristics and on previous
reports by Kobayashi et al., (29) and Oshima et al., (10), we conclude that the obtained cell
population represents the immediate progeny of hair follicle stem cells. Using RT-PCR and
immunofuorescent staining approaches, we found that these cells expressed thymosin β4 mRNA
(not shown) and protein (Fig. 3b) after 7-10 days of culturing in vitro. Interestingly, treatment of
the clonogenic keratinocytes with exogenous thymosin β4 caused a dose-dependent decrease in
the expression levels of the multipotent undifferentiated stem cell marker K15 (Fig. 4). A decline
in K15 is associated with stem cell differentiation. Further, we found that thymosin β4 had no
effect on stem cell proliferation (data not shown). These data indicate that the clonogenic
keratinocytes isolated from rat vibrissa bulge represent the stem cell population and suggest that
thymosin β4 is important for early stem cell differentiation.
Thymosin β4 promotes the migration of hair clonogenic keratinocytes in vitro
Thymosin β4 has been previously shown to promote endothelial cell migration (14). Here, we
found that cultured clonogenic keratinocytes migrate to thymosin β4 after 4.5 h in Boyden
chamber assays. In the presence of thymosin β4, cell migration was increased almost twofold
(69.0±7.1 vs. 113.3±5.5 cell number per field, P≤0.001) at 1 ng over migration in the presence of
medium containing vehicle alone (negative control). The effect of thymosin β4 on cell migration
was greatest at 1 ng/ml and at 100 and 1000 ng/ml migration was decreased. Previously, we
found that 1 ng/ml was very potent for endothelial and keratinocyte migration (13, 14).
Thymosin β4 augments the production and secretion of MMP-2 by clonogenic keratinocytes
Enzymatic degradation and remodeling of extracellular matrix, and particularly the basement
membrane that separates the epithelial (i.e., outer root sheath) and stromal (i.e., dermal sheath,
dermal papilla) compartments of the follicle, are necessary steps in normal hair development and
growth (22, 23, 25, 34). Here, we have examined the effect of thymosin β4 on the enzymatic
activity of MMPs, enzymes responsible for degradation of major extracellular matrix proteins
and, therefore, matrix and basement membrane remodeling in many biological processes,
including hair follicle development and growth (22, 25). Treatment of the clonogenic
keratinocytes with exogenous thymosin β4 caused a dose-dependent increase in the levels of
secreted and cell-derived enzyme MMP-2 (Fig. 5). MMP-2 degrades collagen type IV and
laminin, key proteins of the basement membrane. This effect on MMP-2 was specific, since the
level of another collagen IV-degrading enzyme, MMP-9, was unchanged during thymosin β4
treatment (Fig. 5). Since MMP-2 plays a role in both hair growth-associated extracellular matrix
remodeling and cell migration (2225, 3537), our data suggest that this enzyme may be a
downstream effector through which thymosin β4 exerts its effect on hair growth.

DISCUSSION
Thymosin β4 is a small 4.9-kDa molecule that functions as a major actin-sequestering protein in
cells and has many biological activities. It is upregulated during endothelial cell differentiation,
and when added exogenously, it promotes endothelial cell differentiation and migration (14, 15).
In vivo, it promotes wound repair and is a potent anti-inflammatory agent (1113, 21). Thymosin
β4 is overexpressed in metastatic tumors, and its up-regulation results in increased tumor cell
motility and metastatic potential (18, 38). A related family member, thymosin β15, is also
important in the metastasis of certain tumor types (39, 40). It was reported that thymosin β4
exerts its effects on cell locomotion through specific interactions with actin that regulate
cytoskeletal organization (18, 19). Here, we show that exogenously delivered thymosin β4
promotes hair growth in normal rats and mice. When examining the distribution of endogenous
thymosin β4 through sequential phases of depilation-induced hair growth, we found that in the
resting (telogen) follicle it is expressed in the small number of cells originating in the bulge
region of the outer root sheath. As the follicles enter the active growth phase (anagen), the subset
of thymosin β4-expressing cells in the outer root sheath is expanded toward the base of the
follicle. At the peak of anagen, a significant number of thymosin β4-expressing cells are found in
the bulb area, both in the outer root sheath and among the hair matrix cells. Furthermore, isolated
clonogenic hair follicle keratinocytes, closely related, if not identical, to the hair follicle stem
cells (10, 30), produce thymosin β4 when cultured in vitro for 7-10 days. In addition, the
presence of exogenous thymosin β4 caused a dose-dependent decrease in the expression of the
stem cell marker K15 by clonogenic keratinocytes, suggesting that thymosin β4 may promote
early stem cell differentiation (i.e., transition to the TA phenotype). Most important, treatment of
the bulge-derived clonogenic keratinocytes with exogenous thymosin β4 increased their
migration and production of MMP-2.
A critical step in the hair growth cycle, at the transition between telogen and anagen, is the
movement of some of the bulge-residing stem cells downward, where their differentiated
progeny contribute to complete regrowth or regeneration of the lower, cycling portion of the
follicle (Fig. 2; refs 1, 57, 9, 10). Our data indicate that thymosin β4 facilitates this movement of
the stem cells and their immediate progeny and, thus, exerts its promoting effect on hair growth.
Apart from its direct role in cell locomotion, mediated by interaction with actin (18, 19), the
effect of thymosin β4 on MMP-2 expression appears to play an important role in this system.
MMP-2 was previously shown to contribute to cellular migration, both by means of degrading
extracellular matrix barriers for cell movement and through direct effects on cell locomotion in
vitro (37). In addition, MMP-2 is involved in hair-cycle-associated remodeling of the basement
membrane, the specialized extracellular matrix structure surrounding the epithelial core of the
follicle. Basement membrane remodeling is necessary for signaling between epithelial and
stromal elements of the growing follicle and for elongation and invasion of the lower follicle into
subcutaneous tissue during the anagen phase (2325, 35, 36).
Hair growth acceleration by thymosin β4 may also be attributed, in addition to its effects on stem
cells, to pro-angiogenic and other previously described biological activities of this molecule. It
was recently reported that VEGF promotes hair follicle development, presumably due to its
angiogenic activity (41). Thymosin β4 is angiogenic, like VEGF, and the activity of thymosin β4
may, in addition to its effects on stem cells, be due to its angiogenic activity. Recently, another
angiogenic molecule, hepatocyte growth factor, has been identified in hair follicles and found to
promote hair growth (34, 4244). Hepatocyte growth factor up-regulates thymosin β4 expression
(44) and may be acting by increasing thymosin β4 and/or synergizing with it. Furthermore,
steroids have been used successfully to treat certain types of hair loss (46). Thymosin β4 is the
anti-inflammatory molecule identified as increased in steroid-treated monocytes (21). Thus,
treatment with steroids may also involve the activity of thymosin β4 on the hair growth.
Taken together, our results suggest that thymosin β4 exerts a profound hair-promoting effect
through a combined action on several critical events in hair follicle growth, such as stem cell
progeny migration, ECM-degrading enzyme production, and differentiation. Increased
angiogenesis likely also contributes to the hair growth-promoting effects of thymosin β4.

nate · Post by **nate** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:39 am

wow, I would love to hear a reply to bug's post about TB4 . . . Idon't know jack about it

Dr.AQ · Post by **Dr.AQ** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:40 am

Good morning..

bobthebuilder : best source of stem cells can be found in a young age. NO, all cells are screened and tested before use and there is no report that suggest any cancer development. First, there are no stem cells in the products, therefore, there is no chance HIV or any other virus can be transmitted. Second, Cells are collected from 100% healthy individuals and went through a lot of screenings before certified safe for use.

Dutchhairloss : Yes, massage can help a great deal.

Bug: That was a joke to tease Jacob. I always like to end with a positive note. My apology ! I guess my mom is wrong, I am not funny or people here are not cool

.
I truly think this is not the right platform to discuss papers. I some time chair a journal club for graduate student at the university and I am always amazed on how people perceive data. Remember 3 posts ago I mentioned that good data hardly finds its way to publications, I am a true believer of that (to an extent), on the other hand, the TB4 paper did open a door into stem cells and hair growth.

Ciao..

cld517 · Post by **cld517** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:13 am

Dr, AQ thank you..just a coupl;e of more questions..how should the serum be massaged? is it massaging hard, like when you would massage your temples if you have a headache (skin against bone) or is it like massaging moisturizer into your face? also you stated not to alloww to much time to elapse when lasering but once i reach the rear of my head (the 3rd area) front will have been done 45 minutes before, the center 30 minutes before and the rear most recently..after massaging the serum in for 5 minutes that brings the total time since lasering to; 50 minutes for the front 1/3, 35 minutes for the center and approxiamately 5 minutes for the rear. then after doing the front section for 5 minutes with lasers just add 5 minutes to the previous totals, is that to long a time? thanks again

bug · Post by **bug** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:18 am

Dr.AQ wrote:Good morning..

Bug: That was a joke to tease Jacob. I always like to end with a positive note. My apology ! I guess my mom is wrong, I am not funny or people here are not cool .
I truly think this is not the right platform to discuss papers. I some time chair a journal club for graduate student at the university and I am always amazed on how people perceive data. Remember 3 posts ago I mentioned that good data hardly finds its way to publications, I am a true believer of that (to an extent), on the other hand, the TB4 paper did open a door into stem cells and hair growth.

Ciao..

Haha! Ok you got me Dr AQ! Im glad it was a joke!

As for discussing papers and research here and on the forums I disagree. That is primary purpose for forums! Many forums have strict rules that only research be discussed and not specific vendors, companies or "brands".

Im still on the fence about the hair complex. Im am truly impressed by the amount of time you have spent here. I do hope you provide at least a little more data soon. I need to get off of this fence!

Actually while Im here I do have a couple more questions:

Why do you reveal the growth factors in your skin serum?(shouldn't the same reason you dont want to reveal the growth factors in your hair complex apply to your skin serum?)

Have you heard of a La Jolla biotech company called Advanced Tissue Sciences?(now bankrupt but have reformed under another name which I have mentioned before

)

bug

Subb · Post by **Subb** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:12 am

perga : please store it in a cool and dark place (4C)

just to be sure, this is your recommendation when your not gonna use the complex at once.

so if i;m going to use it the same day as i receive the complex, i can store the complex at room temprature?
approxemently 10 days (after shiping)

Ryand2 · Post by **Ryand2** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:16 pm

I think I'm in the same boat as a lot of people here. I have $200 that is burning a hole in my pocket, trying to tell me to spend it. But its also money that I really shouldn't spend. Lol, unfortunately (or fortunately) I'm teetering on the edge of the fence, and all I'd need from the good doc are some more photos or testimonials.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:35 pm

Dr.AQ wrote:
Bug: That was a joke to tease Jacob. I always like to end with a positive note. My apology ! I guess my mom is wrong, I am not funny or people here are not cool .

I think I posted in this thread..wondering if anyone had a sense of humor.

On the storage issue..once the product is opened..and there's some left over after applying it..should it then be refrigerated?

Dr.AQ · Post by **Dr.AQ** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:23 pm

Greetings friends...

cld517 : I would massage it the ways you wash your hair in the shower, not to hard not to soft. With the laser, after thinking about it, I will do the laser the way you describe it. I think you will not get the 100% benefit of the laser but you will get 40%, which is better than nothing. Also, I want you to notice the re-growth and I am sure one area will grow a little longer than the other. Take note of the area and try to change the order as you go.

Bug : You are a scientist and I understand your position. In regards to the HGF, its the term used when certain amounts of factors/ cell produced factors are used. We are required by the FDA to mention it in the ingredient list. Yes, I know the company, actually my partner Dr. Maguire is more familiar with them than I am. Bug, I have a feeling you are pulling my leg somewhere I don't want to go.

Subb : Be safe at all time and store it at 4C when not in use. Before you use it, allow it to set in a room temperature while in the shower before you putting it on. When we make a product, we test its stability and A&G is very picky when it comes to stability. I know when some of you get the product, you will notice the safety features we have on the bottles and I know some of you will come here and complain about it. At A&G we always play safe and make sure customers get the best.

Ryand2 : We are working very hard to meet the demand and answer all the concerns. I know we are lacking in the information and we can always have more, and we will, we just need to follow certain guidelines and time points before putting everything out.

Jacob : yes and always keep the cap close. Just remember to bring it to room temperature before putting it on.

Good night..

justthin · Post by **justthin** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:11 pm

Dr.AQ wrote:Greetings friends...

cld517 : I would massage it the ways you wash your hair in the shower, not to hard not to soft. With the laser, after thinking about it, I will do the laser the way you describe it. I think you will not get the 100% benefit of the laser but you will get 40%, which is better than nothing. Also, I want you to notice the re-growth and I am sure one area will grow a little longer than the other. Take note of the area and try to change the order as you go.

Bug : You are a scientist and I understand your position. In regards to the HGF, its the term used when certain amounts of factors/ cell produced factors are used. We are required by the FDA to mention it in the ingredient list. Yes, I know the company, actually my partner Dr. Maguire is more familiar with them than I am. Bug, I have a feeling you are pulling my leg somewhere I don't want to go.

Subb : Be safe at all time and store it at 4C when not in use. Before you use it, allow it to set in a room temperature while in the shower before you putting it on. When we make a product, we test its stability and A&G is very picky when it comes to stability. I know when some of you get the product, you will notice the safety features we have on the bottles and I know some of you will come here and complain about it. At A&G we always play safe and make sure customers get the best.

Ryand2 : We are working very hard to meet the demand and answer all the concerns. I know we are lacking in the information and we can always have more, and we will, we just need to follow certain guidelines and time points before putting everything out.

Jacob : yes and always keep the cap close. Just remember to bring it to room temperature before putting it on.

Good night..

ThanksDr.A

Thanks Dr.AQ for stopping in to say hello and leaving some intructions for us. we understand you are working hard for us all and we thanky ou for your forum contributions and your product. IF 72% hair prevention is true(not sure how its measured) then propecia or fin would be gone...along with a few others in my books

..the other benifits, if you get great regrowth even 10 % I think diffuse thinners would be happy with that. IF its safe as you say and it work as you say , which Iam starting to believe may be true...then no more need for minox fin in this world! that would be a good world!lol ...hope this works.

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