Topical Vitamin C increases density of derma papilla

[cuebreeze]

Could this be the cure? Its a study done on vitamin C in the derma papilla in topical form at 3%. I got really exciting reading this

http://ukpmc.ac.uk/articlerender.cgi?artid=151569

Vitamin c topical oxidides very fast from oxygen and can draw in free radicals.

What would be the best way for me to make a vitamin c ascorbic acid topical? Crush up a vitamin c tablet and disolve it in water? or would oranges work?

[cuebreeze]

Also the life span of vitamin c in the human body is only a couple of hours right?


I also amagine in ascorbic acid form rather than vitamin c out of something such as Grapefruit seed extract would be much different yea?

[Jacob]

Elsom has their Giga-C topical..guess Dr. Y knew what he was talking about with that too.

Internally I like liposomal C..but it's not something I can afford to keep taking.

[worldwar]

If you can get hold of L-Ascorbic acid 2-phosphate magnesium salt (Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate, a derivative of L-ascorbic acid, and more stable than ascorbic acid)...

ASCORBIC ACID 2-PHOSPHATE PROMOTES HAIR GROWTH
Kim MK, Kim JC, Sung YK
Department of Immunology, Kyungpook National University School of Medicine, Daegu, Korea

Cultured dermal papilla cells exhibit normal fibroblast-like morphology at early passage. In contrast to the dermal fibroblast, cultured dermal papilla cells can induce hair follicle growth in vivo, although their inductivity is gradually lost during subculture. It is known that ascorbic acid 2-phosphate (Asc 2-P) stimulates growth of dermal fibroblasts by enhanced production of collagen synthesis. However, it is not known whether Asc 2-P stimulates growth of dermal papilla cells and promotes hair follicle growth. In this study, Asc 2-P stimulated growth of dermal papilla cells and promoted hair follicle growth in organ culture model. On the other hand, Asc 2-P did not significantly promoted the growth of outer root sheath keratinocytes. The mRNA level of IGF-1 was increased 3.8-folds with Asc 2-P treatment while that of HGF, VEGF and KGF were not affected in dermal papilla cells. Versican expression in dermal papilla was also increased by Asc 2-P. However, the mRNA level of collagen types I and III was not affected by Asc 2-P in dermal papilla cells. These data, first time to our knowledge, demonstrate that Asc 2-P stimulates growth of dermal papilla cells and promote hair follicle growth in vitro. The growth stimulation of dermal papilla cells and induction of hair follicle growth seems to be, at least in part, mediated by IGF-1 over-expression from dermal papilla cells by Asc 2-P. In addition, these data suggests that signalling pathway that leads to versican expression is activated by Asc 2-P and Asc 2-P may keep dermal papilla cells to maintain hair-inducing activity by regulating versican.

[Jacob]

I've seen it available in bulk/powder..also in some cosmetic products such as: http://www.dermatologistrx.com/displayP ... =12371_Der

I see it's in at least one RepHair product as well.

[worldwar]

I wonder if sodium, like in sodium ascorbyl phosphate, is contra indicated when using minoxidil (sodium-potassium-antagonism)? Bought some camomile concentrate (leaf) a while ago (->apigenin, bisabolol), tried to use it topically but was not happy with it, noticed that it contained sodium compounds (sodium acetate, sodium ascorbate and sodium hydroxide). Unsure about that...

[jdp710]

Hey cuebreeze,

Based on a quote from that last study of "It is known that ascorbic acid 2-phosphate (Asc 2-P) stimulates growth of dermal fibroblasts by enhanced production of collagen synthesis" well, LLLT also is extremely good at collagen production.

From my understanding "A chronic magnesium loss causes a loss of collagen tissue." MPB sufferers have been shown to be deficient in magnesium according to Dr. Watts. I'm going off memory but magnesium won't increase collagen production like ascorbic acid/Vitamin C or LLLT will but helps limit collagen breakdown.


Well, what I'm saying is LLLT should help increase the density of the derma papilla "on paper." Also, magnesium (preferably magensium chloride) would help prevent it's degradation.

[cuebreeze]

Its early days, ive only been bentonite claying and using my pure topical c for a week but i was going thru a pretty major shed leading up to it. I must say since adding both my itch and shed has completely normalized. Could have started from lowering fin dosage but i must say my hair is looking real good from adding those 2.

[xevo01]

it sounds like a bogus product

[cuebreeze]

Im not looking at any products as the vitamin c has to be stable. It oxidides very fast so im using it in its most purest form

[1.....]

cue where do you get your clay from?

[number10ox]

Cuebreeze, please tell us where you're getting your ascorbic acid, and how you're preparing the topical solution.

I've read on a DIY skin care site that it should be at least a 10% concentration by weight (ex. 5 mg L-ascorbic acid per 50 ml H2O) and it should "sting the skin" slightly to indicate it's got an acidity/ph level strong enough to penetrate the dermis.

The study below suggests that any solution with a ph above 3.5 may not be effective in increasing the levels of ascorbic acid at the cutaneous level. I don't know if it needs to penetrate that deeply to stimulate papilla in the scalp, and this study was done using "white Yorkshire pigs", but it seems there's a definite science to an effective formulation.

http://www.nordicselfcare.com/pdf/1.09_ ... rption.pdf

Also, several sources say any ascorbic acid topical should appear "clear" in color to indicate it's still fresh. Once it turns yellowish, it's a sign that it's oxidized and that it's no longer beneficial. I'm just saying there seems to be more to it than just mixing it with water/whatever. Anyway, I've decided to try it too.

I ordered some L-ascorbic acid powder and I'll try mixing it one dose at a time to reduce the oxidation/maximize the effectiveness of each application.

Before I read up on the preparation and complexities of creating a stable and effective DIY vit C topical, I ordered this because it's alcohol free and seems to have no other additives that would hurt the folicle:

http://store.nexternal.com/shared/Store ... oducts.asp

It's supposed to be taken internally, and I have no idea what its ph level is but maybe I'll try it as a topical.

[number10ox]

sorry, that example of a "10% concentration" above should read "500mg" per 50ml H2O instead of "5mg" I'll never be any kind of scientist, that's for sure

[cuebreeze]

Number10ox....You probably have a better idea than me to be honest. I ordered my ascorbic acid from an ebay store and your right about it being white (meaning its stable and still potent). It does have a bit of a stinging affect. If i dermaroll first than apply it doesnt hurt so much but i can deffently feel its there. Sorry i cant answer your questions too well but its just experimenting for now i guess

[goten574]

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