LLLT does not work

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[golf66]

be carefull you going to get insulted or banned and receive insults by email from people you never heard of

[greeko1987]

hey ebutterg,

I know where u r coming from man, with everything that you said you are right in your own way. But the only way to know that it worked for yourself is to only use it.

Have you ever used it? If you havent you cant really say that it doesnt work and its also not fair to spread rumors and to upset people. Off course, there is people that make a lot of money out of lasers but you know what!!!! If it works good for them and they deserve it.

Also, the reason you are starting this thread in here is because you dont care and you just want to bring your point across. Understandable and exactly the same way someone has the right to write his thoughts about the positive then someone can write the negative.

Now, the most fair thing to do is not for someone to block or delete or "kill" the guy or something lol, it is for people to show their results on with LLLT results and prove this guy wrong.

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[greeko1987]

well I do not know if it works yet but I am getting one the coming days and I will tell you if it works after some months. However, for now I am staying neutral to the issue as I do not know if it will work for me or work at all. Maybe next time I will be the one cursing in here lol.

[Anxious1]

the problem here is not LLLT, its ur expectations. u expect LLLT to suddenly regrow all ur hair, and noone has ever claimed it will work like that. Ur pie in the sky expectations, are only going to cause dissapointment, u really think clinics would exist everywhere if they had no affect?, but most people use it in conjunction with other things anyway.

6 months with a 50 diode device, firstly is not enough power, and secondly 6 months is only enough time to see a shed, which is necessary for new growth to occurr. after 12 months, (and fin takes that long as well) u should see some new hairs appear. just remember the longer u have been losing it, the longer it will take to grow back.

im pretty sure noone said it will regrow all ur hair if ur completely bald, the most u should expect, and the most omg and others have claimed it will do is bring back hairs within the 30 month window, and stop further loss. this is success, and probably as good as it will get. just remember if u do nothing, and recession continues, in a few yrs youll be wishing u could get back to the level u r at now, by stopping the recession now, youll have achieved that for the future.

certainly its no silver bullet, and if u thought it was, someones misled u, but in conjunction with other things, it will definately help thicken existing hairs and get some regrowth, and stop any more from falling out. this is a big plus, especially for ppl who cant take finasteride.

and lastly i really have a problem with u making out like omg is somehow scamming u, and selling helmets only for profit.
he worked tirelessly to develop instructions so we can easily build a device with the same power output and benefits (watever u belief them to be), of a $40 000 clinical device for very little cost, using the exact same diodes, these instructions r there for all to see and utilize, yet u chose to buy a device from someone who is making them solely for profit and who doesnt give away his instructions.

omg only started making them for others after people were constantly begging him to do so, because they couldnt be bothered making it for themselves. and u pay him a few hundred dollars for lots of hours of labour that it takes to build one, LLLT was not his idea, hes just made it affordable so that if we want to try it, whether we believe it or not, we can use the same power used in clinics for the same results. So if ur so against it, then ur angst should be directed at the people who invented it, not someone that has helped us by making it affordable for the common man.

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[Anxious1]

of course after 6 months youll be worse off, because its only enough time to have a shed, then u freak out and stop. it has to get worse b4 it gets better, all treatments that work involve a shed first. thats why i know scalpure doesnt work, because it doesnt give u a shed.

u have to push thru the shed, and use it for 12 months, then assess it. and yes there r some who will keep shedding and end up worse off, but thats the risk u take. again its the same with minoxidil and finasteride.

its not fair to others to use it for 6 months, and then stop using it and make out like it wrecked ur hair. because u did not give it enough time. but im not endorsing lllt, personally i cant use it because of the vasodilation that is not good for a acute migraine sufferer, and i agree the before after pictures arent the greatest, but nothing really works as good as we would like, hence why mpb is still such a big problem. i think the answer will come with from stemcell research. its already possible to regrow the tips of ur fingers, as well as various bits of organs and tissues. i think its a matter of time b4 it gets extended to hair regrowth, but im not game to try it until the evidence is there.

LLLT is a legitimate treatment that works to some degree for many, but its no sure fire cure thats for sure.

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[Joey Ramone]

I don't like this idea of trying something for 12 months and then evaluating results when we supposedly only have a 30 month window to grow hair in. This gives you 2 and a half chances to get things right. Basically, with fin and minox failing me after a year I feel pretty screwed.

There's gotta be a better way to know something's gonna work or not.

[bear101]

I've yet to see anything legit (propecia, rogaine) claim to work in the temple regions to any significant extent. At best we can expect to maintain there and in very rare cases get regrowth. I don't think LLLT should be expected to do this either. Even if it does not maintain the temples, but the rest of the hair...that's pretty significant (not that I would like to lose there either). The only thing that can legitmately claim to work there most of the time are transplants IMO.

[golf66]

anxious1 are you his new "lawyer"here? you doing the previous job of nidhoge here

he clamed that 415 diodes were the maxium diodes you could have on a helmet,i dont know how he calculated that but there are some with 500 diodes helmet

so thats the reason why on regrowth i posted
this "yeah lol but apparently the max possible was 415 diodes for some reasons lol i am sure if there was a way to sell you a helmet with 600 diodes it would have been,it's all about making money again and pretending to want to "help others"...

Hey, dude... YOU'RE AN ASSHOLE. I didn't start making helmets for others until this year, and I spent thousands of hours and dollars of my own expense HELPING OTHERS for the past few years with hair loss with practically ZERO REWARD -except from the occasional insult from idiots like you. Don't ever email me again, and I regret making a helmet for you. If you recall, I *almost* didn't make one for you because I didn't think you would be a good customer. Yeah, I was right... you're NOT a good customer, and I don't even think you are a good person.

I make these as a FAVOR to people that can't make them themselves, idiot, which is what I did for you. A FAVOR. Go #$%! yourself..."

then started receiving emails and intimidation tactis from people i never heard of,of course it made me laugh + since he can not defend himself on his own
nihogge defended him ....
basically you have to be grateful and if you are not and happen to be french
they justify themselves by going back to events wich happens 60 years ago
who cares if i am french or Russian,i didn't agree with the facts that putting so many diodes is BS and just a sale tactic

it'

[golf66]

also stop being hypocrits saying he did this or that website,he certainly is not making those helmets for free,he is making something out of this
at least he should be thankful that people paid for his hairtransplant

now if anyone is up for a class action i am ready,like i said i am not using that helmet because i found out you need a license to make and sell those,so i do not believe in the SAFETY of this damn helmet

[James]

If someone went on a forum and was like "Propecia is a scam!!! I have been on it for 6 months and my hair has gotten thinner!!!!!!!!!" People would immediately tell you that you have not given the treatment enough time and that you need to wait a year to determine the efficacy of the treatment.

People are using LLLT for 6 months or less and then freaking out making the conclusion that it is ineffective.

Why are we not applying the same criteria to all treatments?

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[Joey Ramone]

Ok, so what f-king does?

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[Joey Ramone]

All I've seen finasteride and minoxidil do is turn almost bald people into less balding people. In my situation, it's turned me from a slightly thinning and receding person into an obviously balding person with dry, thin, ratty looking hair.

If that's what we have to rely on to regrow some hair then we're all screwed.

Dutasteride hasn't been 'proven' either. The big 2 are your FDA wonderdrugs.

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[Joey Ramone]

Well, I'll be giving it a go.

Will let you know how it goes.

[Anxious1]

golf66, dont bring me into ur delusional train of thought.

anxious1 are you his new "lawyer"here? you doing the previous job of nidhoge here

i dont know wat the hell that meant, but this is a public forum where we share ideas, and opinions about hairloss related stuff, and i will keep sharing my ideas and opinions, and people r welcome to disagree with me, but i am free to say wat i want. one thing youll notice about me is i am usually polite in my posts, even when we r debating something.

perhaps if u went about ur business showing people the same respect, u wouldnt be in the situation u r in now. its not my fault u bought something off the internet without researching it, and now cant get ur money back for it. dont involve me in ur problems. im just a single voice on a public forum trying to find an answer to a problem, im not selling anything, scamming anyone, or performing any law related duties, so leave me alone.

[Dr. Watt]

I am not sure LLLT is a false science. But I think I am getting close to the point (1 year) where the OMG design does not produce results _for me_ and may in fact hurt my hair. I have no idea why this is the case. However, folks have been using these helmets for close to 2 years now. If the results were positive, we would hear more of it. Sadly, folks like myself who have been using with no luck for a long time eventually lose interest and stop posting. This is my first time back in quite a while.

I wish I could say something postive! I really do!

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[greeko1987]

Look people yes maybe it doesnt work for some people. But for some it probably does.

However, I do not understand why OMG does not reply to anything to calm things down and make people RELAAAAXXXX, because since his last posts
everything is getting out of control.

[Hairy Dawgs]

He doesn't respond because he's tired of the negativity and fighting the naysayers. To be honest, he didn't even want to sell helmets at the start. All he wanted to do is start his website, show people how to make it and then disappear but he received such an overwhelming response, he decided to make a few. And then everyone went a little crazy, we can probably chalk it up to the angst of America (financial meltdown, personal meltdowns, you name it) but after that he quit. I can't really say I blame him. He fought them at regrowth, he fought them here. For every one of you bashing him, I could easily say you're a doctor or entrepreneur trying to steer people in another direction to capitalize from it. See how it works? There's a smartass answer for everything.

LLLT may or may not work, just as some people have severe side effects from propecia, minox, etc. Everyone needs to have an open mind and try a variety of solutions and find what formula works for them. We all have different dna and all need something slightly different to hit our correct formula. If we can find a way to find out what formula works specifically for us, instead of a one size fits all focus towards healthcare, we can have our hair back before we die. So please, quit bashing everything just because you don't like it or don't want to like it or have a seperate agenda. Think of a solution if you really want your hair back. Maybe it's PRP, mixed with a small dose of finasteride, with hair cloning and LLLT.

[N0rwgnKid]

Ebutterg - check out sunetics homepage. Google it youll find it.

Dr. Watt - tried pre-laser bentonite clay ? Has helped me a lot. Have you tried experimenting with treatment times ? Or treating in intervals, 2 weeks on 1 off etc ?

[Dr. Watt]

Ebutterg - check out sunetics homepage. Google it youll find it.

Dr. Watt - tried pre-laser bentonite clay ? Has helped me a lot. Have you tried experimenting with treatment times ? Or treating in intervals, 2 weeks on 1 off etc ?

Thanks, no I have not tried bentonite clay. I'm not sure what that would do though to benefit the lasering process. I have tried experiementing with times. They only thing I know for sure is if I go too long, I will shed. This happens time and time again. Right now the safest time seems to be 12 minutes. Anything over that my hair seems to suffer. Sadly though, I would have expected something positive from lasers after 11 months even if it was only to stop further loss. Sadly this is not the case for me.

[clgrey]

I have been using an OMG device for the last 4 months and I LOVE the results so far:

• noticeably more vellus (1000s of them) hairs in my temple regions, many of which are now terminal hairs. I honestly think that at this rate, my temples will at least fill in 50%. I even had an odd single hair growing maybe 1/2 inch down from my hair line - grew to about an inch long, but was "transparent" and I plucked it out; not saying seeing hair randomly grow in places is a good thing, but if it makes hair grow on my forehead, I am sure the usual places (crown and temples) would do great as well!
• much easier to almost have no noticeable thinning area on my crown: the hair is simply denser back there, and a quick brush and the area is "covered". I cannot see the vellus hairs (naturally, since this area is covered unlike my temples), but I can only assume the same thing is happening back there
• shinier and healthier looking hair
• less gray hair; weirdly I have had this small patch of white hair in my one side-burn for ages now (10 years?), which has gone. I did not have much much gray hair before, just now do not see it at all now.

So does LLLT work? For me: YES. These dumb blanket statements that something does or does not work are pointless. OMG is not a scientist; he is not trying to prove anything to anyone, do double-blind studies or get published in peer-reviewed journals. He has simply taken an idea and created a device based on it; if this device seems absurd to you, DON'T buy or build it; if it does not work for you, STOP using it. The HairMax lasercomb - which I bought and tried to give away locally because it was such an impractical and tedious device - was meant to have shown hair-growth in a study, and that is with shining one laser for about 10 seconds max on one area as you moved through your scalp. IF that was the case, how is the idea of shining more lasers for a longer time not a plausible way of growing hair?

As far as I am concerned, the LLLT idea is plausible, it works for me, and OMG has been a stand-up guy and does not need all of your acrimony.
And, no, I am not OMG, or friends with him, or have financial interest in the success of lasers, I am just a few-month forum lurker tired of seeing this negativity directed at him and LLLT. Of course, be skeptical of me, my claims and experience - this is the Internet - who knows who I am and what my agenda is! But then be just as skeptical with the ebuttergs and Dr. Watts around here, who knows what their agendas are as well. Also, I find crown photos terribly unconvincing - almost any change (hair-cut length, hair-product, dampness, styling, lighting) can make hair look better or worse back there for me. I might take a picture of one of my temples and track that for a few months since it is easier to see hair growing there, but, again, I am also not trying to prove this to anyone, and there will be a flurry of negative posts saying how I am imagining change, so I am not sure that is even worth it.

This may well be my one and only post here: I like what I am seeing so far. If that ever changes in the future, I will likewise report back honestly on that.

[N0rwgnKid]

Dr.Watt. With bentonite clay i get increased headpump and stimulation from my lasering. My scalp feels great after using it, leaves it "cold", calm and feeling very clean. I make a paste out of it, massage it into my scalp, leave it on for an hour, then wash it out before lasering. Great, I recommend it.

As far as your experience with lasering, I can report similar experiences. When I first started, great results, thickening, etc, but then, after a month, decline, sunburn-feeling and a lot of shedding. I paused during the christmas holidays, 3-4 weeks, before I started up after christmas doing 12 minutes every other day with bentonite clay pre-lasering. Great thickening after 3 weeks, then, out of a sudden, I notice the "sunburn" feeling I am now familiar with. I stop. Maybe my scalp needs a "lasering break" whenever this hits me. So now, I have been off lasering for 2 weeks, and my hair is awsome, the best its been in over 1 year. I plan on getting on lasers again for 2-3 weeks, then taking a new break, doing intervals ! Maybe this could be a new way to go, doing intervals, I hope I make it work. Maybe you should try the same thing.


And to you Ebutterg, your statements through this thread are kind of groundless sry