a new salon/clinic laser unit

Discuss the use of laser therapy for fighting hair loss. If you're using a purchased device, or a laserbrush or helmet that you've made yourself, discuss it here.

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Joanne
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a new salon/clinic laser unit

Post by Joanne » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:04 am

There's a fairly new (to me anyway) LLLT therapy device being used in a salon in Texas. The device is made by a company in Austin called ManeGain and their website is pretty thin (also, the phone number doesn't work and they don't answer their emails).

Briefly, it has 56 diodes (don't know which ones), 280 light emitters (??), and a pulsed magnetic field coil. The website's technology info is below.

Interestingly, the salon offering this says they'll refund 100% of your money after 24 treatments if you don't see results. There are some restrictions on the refund...for example, you have to follow their protocol (none of your first 24 sessions are less than 72 hours or greater than 96 hours apart) and you have to request the refund within 1 week after the 24th treatment. So basically they're saying if you see no results in 3 months, they'll refund your money. Not bad. And, there are NO topicals or supplements that accompany the "program", just the laser treatments.

I'm curious ..what do our resident laser experts make of this?

(manegain.com)

ManeGain’s technology employs a scientific combination of three technologies that free the hair follicles from chemical blockage, stimulate the cells of the follicle, and enhance the blood flow to and through the follicle area.

Understanding Hair Loss
The main reason for men’s hair loss is a male hormone called DHT (DiHydro Testosterone)*. Naturally produced DHT builds up in the fat around a hair follicle and constricts the blood vessels and the resulting blood flowing to it. As a result, the hair follicle does not get enough nourishment. The hair becomes thin and then finally drops off. Eventually the follicle literally starves to death. DHT is very important in making a man a man and not a woman, and it is important not to destroy it, just limit its effects on the hair follicle.

Why Other Treatments Fail
Chemical or drug solutions to lessen the effect of DHT at the hair follicle can affect DHT elsewhere in the body. These effects include feminizing results on a man. Both Rogaine® and Propecia® can have this and other side effects** and use of these treatments should be considered with caution.

What technology is used to solve this problem?
ManeGain’s Hair Restoration technology employs a combination of two high-tech treatments: the first is photonics (narrowband lasers and lights) and the second is a tuned pulsed electromagnetic field called Dyna-Pulse. Combined, these technologies address male pattern baldness and hair loss caused by DHT in three ways:
1. Reducing the local DHT build up is done with Low Level Laser light. Light is what physicists call photons. Photons are a duality energy form, sometimes it acts like a particle and sometimes like a wave, it has to do with the weirdness of Quantum Theory and fills books that can put you to sleep better than sleeping pills. In this case, laser photons act like particles and penetrate the scalp to break up the DHT, thus reducing its effect on the hair follicles.
2. Photo-stimulation of the hair follicle cells. Four different energy levels or colors of light, now acting as waves, activate various proteins in the cells causing micro-electrical stimulation of the cells as a whole. The combination or red, green, yellow, and blue light-wave pulses essentially wake the cells up, kind of a cellular CPR to get them going again.
3. Pulsed Magnetic Field Therapy, a proven technology for stimulating blood-flow by reducing inflammation, literally performs a cellular massage. This cellular massage helps the cells swollen by the DHT abuse again begin respiration. As effective respiration resumes, the cells metabolize fresh food and oxygen from the blood and get rid of free radicals and toxins that clogged them up in the first place. As they shrink back to normal, healthy size, more blood can flow and the cells begin to work like before.

ManeGain Just Works!
Combining these three scientific effects regenerates and rejuvenations the hair follicles; they start producing natural, robust, and healthy hair, and your Mane Gains. You look younger, healthier, and not having to mess with the rest of your body’s DHT, you regain and keep your vibrancy, vigor, and virility. This is how 21st century physics can make you look like you did when you were 21!

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hapyman
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Re: a new salon/clinic laser unit

Post by hapyman » Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:57 am

Sounds interesting. Pulsed magnetic fields are legit in my opinion and there are a couple good products out there for electrotherapy. Coincidentally I ran across this the other day:

http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/~akl ... ulser.html

jdp710
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Re: a new salon/clinic laser unit

Post by jdp710 » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:11 am

Joanne wrote: it has to do with the weirdness of Quantum Theory and fills books that can put you to sleep better than sleeping pills. i]
I like this quote, lol.

Seriously though, just a couple quick points that using multiple different light spectrums will give less in results based on Karu's research. Karu is one of the leading researchers into LLLT. I can't find her study but here is a quote

"However, it must be noted that multi-diode cluster probes generally contain multiple wavelengths, which can lead to a degradation of the effectiveness of laser therapy (Karu, 1998)"

http://www.modernhomoeopathy.com/arndlt%20law.htm

Also, there has not been a single study that has shown less DHT buildup or similiar from LLLT. If I'm not mistaken Dr. Maricle believes there is no basis to this. The only one that I can think of would be LLLT increases lymphatic drainage but not sure if that would reduce DHT buildup in the scalp. OMG use to talk about this all the time but it kept getting brough up and also why he used Zix and Polysorb 80. I personally make sure that my scalp is clean before LLLT (best way is clay) to remove the buildup of sebum ---> DHT.

Pulsed Magnetic Field Therapy I've looked into before namely the Beck magnetic pulser and cheaper knockoffs and there are some very credible and even amazing reviews on them. The only reservation is I'm not sure you'd want to put that anywhere near your brain ... Maybe the clinics device is something different from what I'm thinking though. Either way something like the magnetic pulser that I'm thinking of works by increasing lymphatic drainage if I'm not mistaken. LLLT also increases lymphatic drainage but the magnetic pulser would be much more effective so there is a bit of an overlap in treatment but I'm not sure if it's needed "in the long run." Stephen Foote's theory revolves around this. You can also do scalp massages too or jump on a trampoline or use a far-infrared sauna or preferably spend time in the sun.


About using LLLT 3 times per week, keep in mind this is basically what all the laser studies have found to give the best results at. There are something like 1500 studies/abstracts at laser.nu. Anyone wondering why 20 minutes (4 - 5 joules with OMG's helmet) I'd highly recommend to visit that site. thorlaser.com has the same studies as laser.nu but is an easier to read site and they only have a fraction of the studies/abstracts posted. One last word about treatment time is that back in June I mentioned getting possibly better results out of my helmet using it more often than 3 days per week. I also mentioned using it possibly less than 20 minutes to compensate. hapyman ended up with 10 minutes 4 times per week is what he's happy with. Either way, all I know is using more times per week = better results IMO but no clue on treatment time as it would be impossible for me to figure out what works for me at this stage in my hair loss. BTW, if you talk to some of the laser clinics, you'll have some of the owners/employees using their laser hood more times per week than what they tell their customers to use it. I believe I gotta have more cowbell mentioned similiar if I'm not mistaken. Is it for convenience due to marketing? Curious though why the owners of some laser clinics use their devices more than what they tell their customers.

Also, I know some of you weren't aware of the testimonials last year, as that's why I was collecting them so they wouldn't disappear, but there were many people that would bump up their diode count in their helmet or lasermax. Itchy's testimonial pretty much sums it up where he mentioned using a lasermax90 (?) and bumped it up to a lasermax 250 or so and got much better results. There were many others that also found this to be true. Bumping up diode count doesn't increase the joules you'll get but you're just treating a larger area. Not to mention you'll get systemic results for laser blood irradiation. That's all though. Basically, what I'm saying is that this replicates the 1500 + LLLT studies/abstracts at laser.nu.

One last comment about sheds, I haven't seen anybody mention having any major sheds if they use magnesium chloride ;) Granted, there aren't many people using magnesium chloride with LLLT and a lot of the ones that do are under the impression if they use magnesium chloride for a couple weeks or couple months their mag levels are optimal which is completely false ... takes "many" months. What's interesting is that a lot of the first people that were very happy about LLLT were veterans in fighting their hair loss. Veterans usually would have tried other treatments including Immortal Hair's options including trying magnesium when hatchet talked about it often. Well, what I'm saying is that there is always a possibility that their mag levels were much higher than some of the new people to LLLT today ... just a thought. Also, consider heart disease. In heart disease, "somewhere" around 90% of heart attack patients of very low levels of magnesium and ATP. Considering magnesium's role into ATP stability it's not surprising. Well, guess what would happen to a heart patient if you had them run a 1/4 mile ... they might have a heart attack. Now if you apply this same thinking towards MPB, using LLLT on magnesium deficient cells in our scalps, well, you get the point. And don't forget hatchet's post a long time ago about Dr. Watt's finding about magnesium deficiency being a trait in androgenic alopecia. I've been mentioning magnesium since Oct of last year and I'd highly recommend it for possibly synergy.

So again, for those that see results and then results drop-off a couple months later really should try magnesium oil. Bring mag levels back up and I doubt results would taper off and get a shed that has been mentioned.

As for cleaning scalp before LLLT treatments, last year I even slacked off and while I was still washing my hair before my LLLT treatments, my hair didn't improve as much as when I was thoroughly washing my scalp. When I realized what I did different, my results continued. I doubt this is coincidence, and was evident when dogface posted that study back in December about a clean surface and LLLT penetration/absorption.

And again, if you buy $10 worth of clay, that would probably be a 6 month supply. If you convert Nigari to magnesium chloride $15 would probably be a 6 month supply.

Sorry for the ramblings and going off-topic Joanne.

hope this helps

BTW, for those that don't know, I do not have any financial ties to anything hair loss related. LLLT is only a hobby of mine
Last edited by jdp710 on Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Joanne
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Re: a new salon/clinic laser unit

Post by Joanne » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:00 am

Thanks jdp.

One thing, the 4 different wavelengths are LEDs, not lasers.

I finally got an email from someone at the manufacturer. Found out the lasers are the same we're all using (650/5mw). They also rotate around the helmet. He was less specific about the LEDs (the 280 light emitters), just that there were 4 different wavelenths ... blue, green, yellow and orange. I'm wondering if these work more on skin rejuvenation/inflammation reduction ... kind of like the Talika, BQ, etc ...

Also, I agree that I've never seen any direct evidence that lasers "target" DHT. If there's any reduction in the amount or effect of DHT, I suspect it's a result of a healthier functioning cell metabolism or circulation. So that answer strikes me as pretty weak.

He didn't really address the magnetic pulsed frequency in his email other than to refer to it as a patented process called Dyna Flex or Dyna Pulse. This is where I have the most questions. Like you, I'm a little suspicious of something that close to the brain. It's basically EMF, right? And the latest studies on cel phones are drawing a link between EMFs and brain tumors. Maybe it's two different things, but I don't know.

I believe this company (Austin Medical Research, Inc is the parent company) started with magnetic therapy devices for use in chiropractic/physical therapy. Not sure about that as they don't have a lot of info on line that I can find.

One of the guys from ManeGain is going to call me this week. I have a bunch of questions for him ... but if you have any others, let me know and I'll ask.

jdp710
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Re: a new salon/clinic laser unit

Post by jdp710 » Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:38 pm

,Hi Joanne,

I ran a google search for and came across this quote

"On the same day I heard on the news of another great medical discovery. Apparently Australian Psychiatrists have discovered a new and better cure for depression by using a strong magnetic pulser on the brain."

http://www.health-science-spirit.com/electromag.html



BTW, maybe I have it all wrong and they aren't planning on putting this near your scalp. Here is some info regarding the Dyna-Pulse

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/83929.php

http://www.correctivechiropractic.net/t ... /media.php

I'm guessing this is their website http://www.dyna-pulse.info/index.html

At any rate, if this is what I'm thinking of it is used in the alternative medicine with success from what I remember ... although I don't believe I remember hearing anyone use it for hair loss. If I had the money, I would have bought a Beck magnetic pulser which sounds like it runs on the same principle. Although, I would say LLLT and a magnetic pulser on the scalp the benefits appear to overlap, if that makes sense, as they both increase lymphatic drainage.

If you do decide to try them out, let us know your results.

Joanne
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Re: a new salon/clinic laser unit

Post by Joanne » Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:05 am

Hi jdp,

Thanks for the links ... especially the first one ... very interesting stuff.

My understanding from his email was that the magnetic pulsing was part of the helmet device. The weird thing is, after reading their links about their therapeutic magnetic devices, it sounds like that device has to be flat to work. It says you can't wrap it around a limb, because it effectively cancels out the polarity or magnetic charge. So ... I wonder how they address this design/functionality aspect for a device that needs to treat a round surface.

But actually, I haven't even seen a picture of this device yet so for all I know it could be more like the lasermax design as opposed to a helmet ... flat panels arranged around the head. But then, how would it rotate? I'm going to have to see it ...

My list of questions for him is getting longer ... :lol:

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Re: a new salon/clinic laser unit

Post by jeteye » Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:05 am

Joanne, sorry you were not able to get in touch with us! You can reach me at jxf@manegain.com if you have any questions about our Hair Restoration Units. We have locations in 'Austin, TX and will be opening in LA, NYC, Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio within the next 90 days. Also, our phone number on the website was incorrect (oops), but it works now. Also, here is my personal cell phone number 512 632 3080 if you would like to chat.

Warmly,
Jeffrey Fry
EVP
ManeGain

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