***Lasers***

Awaiting Regrowth · Post by **Awaiting Regrowth** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:23 pm

Well the whirlpool of optimisum is slowly coming to a hault as the people who have been lasering over the last 18 months continue to flag up continued loss and the newbees continue to shed. Nowhere is this more prevalent than at Regrowth.com where for me this 'wild card' became a reality. Now the people who whole heartedly bought into OMG and Nid, Jpd....etc etc are becoming increasingly disgruntled and disallusioned with their results or lack of.

Yes, I am bitter. I bought the 'Ferrari' of hairloss that was clinically proven and had rave reviews! I never actually saw these for myself I just heard about them. Now that the 'school bullies' have been band from the scene of the crime (Regrowth) a lot more realism and obviously disappointment has come to light.

Lasers may work, but not the ones you own, and not to the guidelines ......sorry 'guidelines'.....we are using.

I have heard many many sweeping statements and ill placed scientific logic.... if it reduces inflammation it MUST regrow hair.....If it increases ATP it MUST regrow hair....Most of the people at Regrowth ARE .5 Norwood better off!

I'm sticking with a story that is personal to me...Not Hearsay..... I have lost approx 20-30% of the density of my hair in the past 3 months. The reports I read implied fairly strongly that I would be peaking in hair density soon, NEVER did it say I would lose it all before I gained anything back...which is still questionable.

I will show pictures of my rapid loss just not tonight as it is late. I am bitter, but not angry towards anyone. I threw my money at OMG! He defends his 'products' as do others...that's business, I accept it.

My focus now has to be saving for a solution rather than buying into a pipe dream. If you truely believe in lasers then good luck, if you are here because you benefit from lasers that you 'hope' may work, shame on you.

God bless.

tonyj · Post by **tonyj** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:01 pm

Jeez, don't know what to say dude. Maybe "Sorry for your loss." "Our thoughts and prayers are with your hair follicles."

Dr. Watt · Post by **Dr. Watt** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:35 pm

Awaiting Regrowth wrote:
I'm sticking with a story that is personal to me...Not Hearsay..... I have lost approx 20-30% of the density of my hair in the past 3 months. The reports I read implied fairly strongly that I would be peaking in hair density soon, NEVER did it say I would lose it all before I gained anything back...which is still questionable.

I will show pictures of my rapid loss just not tonight as it is late. I am bitter, but not angry towards anyone. I threw my money at OMG! He defends his 'products' as do others...that's business, I accept it.

God bless.

Can I ask how long you have been using the OMG helmet (which I also use)? I would say I have also lost about the same density as you in the last 6 months. I'm curious if you are ahead of me or behind timewise in your treatments. Lousy feeling and a bit of a trap. If it is working then you have to ride it out and who knows how long that would take. If it is not working but does shed weak hairs then I would obviously want to stop. No way to know since we are all dependent on reading others experiences and guessing.

hairisgood · Post by **hairisgood** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:09 am

There is a positive testimonial thread. Why don't you go back to regrowth with all the other douche bags, OK? With an attitude like that I hope you lose all your hair.

dr185 · Post by **dr185** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:21 am

I agree with many of the sentiments of Awaiting Regrowth.

I jumped on the bandwagon after all the hype at regrowth. It did make a lot of sense to me, and I still believe that light energy can have it's benefits....just not neccessarily these lasers we are using. I went all out with a 370 diode beast.....what a waste of money!

I have posted before on regrowth about my doubts over this treatment, but that quickly incurred harsh reactions (but not from everybody....there were many helpfull and sympathetic members). Recently I felt that my less frequent usage was actually helping....but it turns out I was having some 'good hair days' from being out in the sun and relaxing.

I also felt that lasers had helped my scalp itch...which was something at least....but then I realised..I'm washing my hair twice a day several times a week! I was scrubbing my scalp like never before, even putting coconut oil and occasionally transdermal magnesium on it. Lasers weren't neccessarily the reason at all.

I'm incredibly disappointed that after 9 months I have nothing positive to tell....however my loss has neither increased or decreased...just continued as normal. I think people should think hard about investing in this treatment. I genuinely believe that the initial supporters of lasers weren't out to scam anyone...they really felt it was the next best hope....but time has proven that it wasn't.. and still isn't...so dr miracle, omg, nid (and poss others...I don't know?) no longer deserve to benefit from this, otherwise they risk becoming the conmen they so readily (and rightly) chased away from other sites.

There was certainly no intent to deceive...they were just people with unrealistic hopes. But all the hope has gone for me.

hairisgood....you need to calm down....your attitude is not helpful...and is reminiscent of the reactions of another member. You just come across as being ignorant and a bully. The positive testimonial is only representative of a very small % of people who have tried this treatment..and furthermore I'm certain that many of those who 'thought' they were getting benefits have now seen their gains diminish.

hapyman · Post by **hapyman** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:31 am

Sorry it didn't work out for you guys. My hope would be that you would try it for longer but that is your choice. Unfortunately there are those that don't seem to respond as fast as others when using LLLT. I am one of them, took me 10 months to stop. We have several theories floating around but unfortunately nothing concrete. Dr. Maricle's position that it is just a matter of time frame and that eventually everyone using LLLT will level out. Personally I think it is something else internal, perhaps to due with certain mineral deficiencies, like magnesium, or a disrupted Nitric Oxide Cycle.

Regardless if you guys are thinking about getting rid of your equipment let me know. I may be interested in taking it off your hands. I've been wanting to up my diode count for awhile.

N0rwgnKid · Post by **N0rwgnKid** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:57 am

I second Hapyman, one shouldnt give up just yet, try experimenting.. different treatment times, either increase or decrease... Whats the color of your guys skin/hair by the way?

Awaiting Regrowth · Post by **Awaiting Regrowth** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:19 pm

I have dark hair and light skin. I use 15 minutes approx to not over stimulate, as previously suggested. Basically guys I have seen no one who has really benefitted from these lasers.

Laser sales should banned from hairloss sites until we know what works.

hairisgood · Post by **hairisgood** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:29 pm

Where are the pictures you said you would post of the hairloss from lasers that you claim to have? There is a positive testimonial thread and lots of evidence supporting lasers so I would say you are in the minority. You say it's only been a couple months. That is not long enough and most people apparently don't get cosmetic results for 6-12 months. at 12 months I think it is like 90 percent. So that still leaves 1 in 10 that don't see results after a year. So maybe you are just not a good responder. No one ever said it was a cure all.

qwerty4102003 · Post by **qwerty4102003** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:30 pm

I suppose LLLT is like Rogaine....it works for some and it doesnt for others......Having been doing LLLT for 2 months or so, I havent really experienced a shed. I did notice that about 8 of my hairs that were gray actually turned back to blonde at the root - so that is one big plus for me. I have a small patch of gray in the front of my hair. About 12 years ago I had some transplants put in on my temples. There was this tiny bald spot where the front line of the transplants stop and where my frontal hairline is. When I initially saw this tiny bald spot I freaked and that's when I started to do lasers. In this little spot, there are 4 thick hairs coming in - two coming out of one follicle. I dont know if it's from the LLLT or from my normal shed, but I'm not going to jinks anything and keep going with the LLLT.

hapyman · Post by **hapyman** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:37 pm

Awaiting Regrowth wrote:I have dark hair and light skin. I use 15 minutes approx to not over stimulate, as previously suggested. Basically guys I have seen no one who has really benefitted from these lasers.

Laser sales should banned from hairloss sites until we know what works.

Well you condemn others for having such a close minded attitude so that's just silly. Just because you are having a bad experience 3 months into a treatment doesn't mean the sky is falling. Contrary to whatever your perception is, LLLT is helping a lot of people. Truth be told most of the people it is helping are not here and for good reason. Not to mention that the positive testimonial thread is just a sliver of all the people LLLT have helped. There are a lot of people who have never posted even once, who read the boards and made or bought helmets. The truth is that the slow responders seem to be the minority NOT the majority like you are trying to paint it. Unfortunately I am in that slow responding minority. Do I wish I responded quicker and saved more of my hair. Sure of course I do. But I am not bitter towards anyone. I don't blame you for being feeling down and out but please don't try and bring everyone else down with you.

Oh and don't use regrowth as your sample because it is a known fact that they have companies posting, posing as actual "real" members. There is still some "real" posters over there but some of them are buying into the garbage that the admins are putting out.

Heath · Post by **Heath** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:00 am

AWAITING REGROWTH. That really sucks, sorry man. I started LLLT a month ago.
Does anyone have photos of their progress on any LLLT?

dr185 · Post by **dr185** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:07 am

Well I'm certainly hapy

to hear that some people respond late......please god let that be me! I have been using lasers for about 9 months...I'm sticking with it for at least 4 more months. After that I'll gladly sell it to you hapyman....it's a good helmet.

The fact that I'm platinum blonde may contribute to my slow response....but this has been debated before with few conclusions reached. For now I'm sticking with 20 min sessions every 2 or 3 days.

Shame to hear there are some shills posing as members over at regrowth. I tend to listen to those with long membership...more posts etc....however that may not filter all the undesirables?

I have to say the best regrowth and thickening experience I've had was when I was on ciproflaxcin for several months and was out in the sun a lot. My hair improved so much. I don't want to be on anti biotics again....but I still think a high quality sunlamp that replicates the sun's spectrum of light would improve my hair more than lasers. But I'm strangely reluctant to buy one....just in case I'm wasting more money.

LaserKid · Post by **LaserKid** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:11 am

Does anyone think that maybe taking a week off lasering or reducing treatment times may actually be beneficial to this shedding?

Also, what is the reasoning behind using so many lasers? Is it to get the necessary joules? I'm only asking because almost all clinical lasers have about 100 or so widely spaced. Even the sunetics 'G' has only 107 and look at the results they are getting!

There is obviously a spectrum of people who respond. This goes from those who respond on minimal stimulation (like those getting results with hairmax) to those who are poor responders and require >300 diodes for 20mins or more to get results.
Everyone is different, and everyone will respond at different times and with different energy. If you ask me, you've just gotta keep playing around with it until you find something right. There are so many factors which determine how much energy actually reaches your follicles (most of them genetic such as skin type and mitochondrial factors, but also a few environmental, such as whether your scalp has been subject to UV light etc).

NeverQuit · Post by **NeverQuit** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:41 am

Awaiting regrowth. I'm in the same boat as you but worse. Lost around 40%-50% in the last 3 months and existing hair is not good. I started using a lasermax50 last Thanksgiving then added an OMG250 (20x3) in April so that's a total of 10 months.

I feel your pain:
I'm at that really hard phase where you take that make up mirror and check out the top of your head against the main mirror and it almost makes you puke, or if you shave it off you'll look even worse with such diffused thinning, or you have a new hot gf who hasn't quite caught onto it yet because for the last 3 months you dodged the pool, or your not comfortable sitting at a computer desk with someone standing over you....and on and on...so I do feel your pain. And if I posted pictures of the last 3 months, you would want to puke with me. We're not talking about a "oh I got a haircut and I think my hair is a little thinner" - We're talking "Oh my F#CKING G#D WHAT THE HEL$ HAPPENED!" I don't consider this type of loss good shedding, or good signs for things to come, this is more my hair saying, dude...your really messing me up right now and you need to figure it out. Besides shedding the hair that is left is thin and unhealthy. Also understand the only thing that changed in my routine in the last 5 months was my LLLT helmet. Could it be at 40 everything has run it's course and that's it? Could be...but to me I would have had more gradual loss. Fast loss = something is very right or very wrong.

I think it would be much more constructive for some of us LLLT users to continue to compare our outcomes and learn from each other. There are a lot of positive testimonials, but not many negatives. I think it's great what OMG and the others are doing in the research of LLLT. All I would request would be that the same amount of research would be devoted to the "non-responders". I drank the cool aid too, but the difference is I still want to drink the cool aid, just maybe a drop of it vs. a pitcher.

Here are my thoughts from my own hairloss hell and why not only LLLT hasn't worked for me but possible reasons it has progressed my hairloss faster than it has in my whole life.

1) Over stimulation - It's a fairly new topic and needs to be continued. My intuition tells me I am killing my hair with over stimulation.

2) Minox - Could be, but then why would there be many good responders to LLLT while on Minox. Now what could be happening is that LLLT is canceling minox out which would give me the same results as stopping minox cold turkey after 5 years.

As an experiment for the next 3 months I will do the following; I am actually going to go back to the Lasermax50 twice per week for 20 minutes continue minox in the am and revivogen in the pm. If I get some of the hair back then BAM, I will know I was getting too much. It's the only way guys, it's proof without any speculation. Then I can bring the helmet back in maybe 10 minutes once a week or whatever. Note: The ONLY variable I will be changing is the LLLT time and usage not just by 5 minutes but by 200 less diodes. Hey, it's rare, but there are some successful Lasermax users out there - maybe they happen to be the ones who get overstimulation so it works really well for them...who knows? (another option I may consider is to use the helmet twice a week for 10 min.)

Right or wrong this approach will be a great learning experience for the LLLT community and will either be a "what to do" or "what not to do"

Hang in there "Awaiting Regrowth" I really think there might be life after hairloss, it just really sucks getting there.

NQ

Awaiting Regrowth · Post by **Awaiting Regrowth** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:35 pm

Alright 'Never Quit'.

I have been lasering for 3 months and I get the feeling 'my hair is dying' also. It just feels like when I wash it their is less there and when I see it out the shower by the mirror I also feel physically sick. Prior to starting lasers believe it or not my newly aquired girlfriend thought I was mental....now I feel I was also!
I started lasers to maintain and thicken up......OMG how this has cost me.

Stuck between a rock and a hard place now. Do I stop, do I stick, increase or decrease??? NOT a clue. Guidelines and advice are so varied that peoples experiences are very different. However, I have requested many times current photos from people currently benefitting, these haven't been forthcoming.

LLLT has a nasty edge to it like no other treatment. You explain your personal experiences and people jump around calling you names.....almost as if they have a vested interest. I have seen this many times and it has ment people to be banded from some sites, and I am pleased as we should all be pulling in the same direction.

For me, you and for many other of OMG customers they still aren't benefitting from lasers. This is not an attact, it's an observation. Please see link. Any before anyone shouts and screams...Regrowth was a well used legit site until some people where asked to leave.

I plan to try a chinese topical and herb. Not sure which one yet, but I have been using 101e for spots and that has done wonders for my complexion so I am going to look into a more natural hollistic approach. However, if proscar didn't render me impotent I would definitely use that.

All the best.

http://www.regrowth.com/hairloss-forums ... 10&t=24602

hapyman · Post by **hapyman** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:04 pm

@Neverquit: Are you still getting that sunburn feeling? Have you tried altering your treatment times yet?

@the rest of the group: Who here has been trying magnesium oil (Not necessarily on the scalp) and for how long? Anyone else using Minox besides NeverQuit?

hapyman · Post by **hapyman** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:10 pm

Actually I think we need to get some information together all in one thread. I tried going through everyone's past posts but it is a pain. Since there are a few non-responders here lets get some info together and see if their is a correlation. Just a few starter questions here.

Hair Color:

Skin Color/Type:

Age (optional but might be interesting):

Minox: Yes/No & how long

Other Topicals:

Internals (supplements/prescriptions):

LLLT Protocol: Duration, # of times etc.

Description of your device:

Description of Sensations after LLLT:

jksl · Post by **jksl** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:57 am

Hair Color: black

Skin Color/Type: fair and somewhat sensitive. easily tanned.

Age (optional but might be interesting): 27

Minox: No. Never used it.

Other Topicals: Occasionally will use emu oil along the hairline.

Internals (supplements/prescriptions):
Magnesium (either by mag oil, epsom salt baths, or magnesium citrate powder drink)
NOW ascorbic acid powder
NOW lysine powder
Source Naturals proline powder
NOW vitamin D3 5000iu
Jarrow MK-7
Jarrow krill oil
Lewis Labs pure brewer's yeast
Green Vibrance (greens powder)
Eureka! Berries (mixed berry powder)

Just added:
Jarrow Biotin 5mg
Life Extension zinc gluconate powder
Thorne Research Pyroxidal 5' Phosphate

LLLT Protocol: 4 months in. 3 times a week @ 20 minutes/session. Recently, changed to 10 minutes every other day.

Description of your device: OMG 415 helmet.

Description of Sensations after LLLT: What sensation?

hairless · Post by **hairless** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:57 am

I am in my third month. I know everyone ways stick with it but when I started I was only at 10% loss now I am at 40% loss. When I started I had a hairline and now I do not. When I started my crown was thin now it is scalp. My laser has significantly increased my loss and I am having a hard time continuing because I just cant take any more loss.

I am 29 years old
Brown hair
I use the 50 diode laser max 20 minutes three times a week but now I am at 15 minutes twice a week
I am a girl so I am starting to be forced to wear bandanas and headbands to cover my hairline. I dont know what to do.
Any advice? Anyone know anything about woman and lasers? I have been unable to find any help.

NeverQuit · Post by **NeverQuit** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:11 am

@hapyman - I kept reducing times until the sunburn feeling stopped. I ended up with 10 minutes twice per week. Even at that I get a "slight" sunburn feeling just the day after. Also,maybe add to your list above percentage of loss or results(lack of) section. I can also add, all the lost terminals are now coming back as vellus NOT terminal.

tonyj · Post by **tonyj** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:29 am

Hapyman- I was wondering if you knew which lasers are used in the hand held Androhair device (www.androhair.com). A study was done on the device back in 2003 (http://www.monandrohair.com/pdf/estudio.pdf) where the researchers said people did experience shedding but not to a large degree.

Also would add to the list
Diet
Exercise
(Light med or heavy )Consumption of Alcohol, coffee, wine, carbonated drinks...
LLLT Start Date
Condition of hair before LLLT
And under for the "Description of your Device"
-What wave length for lasers
-No. of diodes
-Know intensity and density of your lasers

Lakers · Post by **Lakers** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:24 am

NeverQuit wrote:@hapyman - I kept reducing times until the sunburn feeling stopped. I ended up with 10 minutes twice per week. Even at that I get a "slight" sunburn feeling just the day after. Also,maybe add to your list above percentage of loss or results(lack of) section. I can also add, all the lost terminals are now coming back as vellus NOT terminal.

Is this sunburnt feeling you guys talk about an inner sensation (feel) of the scalp or outer sensation(touch)?

NeverQuit · Post by **NeverQuit** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:59 pm

I can't speak for the others, but I am referring to the touch.

perga · Post by **perga** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:05 pm

I have used lasers for probably ... well let me think here... it must be going on a year.

As I said at regrowth multiple times (resulting in rage induced replies by the LLLT guard dogs), I think lasers are a fair treatment. I personally have no doubt that it is HELPFUL... these claims of miracle regrowth and permanent cessation of MPB were ridiculous and I said it multiple times.

If your balding is anything like mine, then your only hope is to hit this thing from every angle you can. That means: diet, exercise, vitamins, a low dosage of 5ar inhibitors, topicals, shampoos, LLLT, and the list goes on. I do all that %&$!... and if I'm still going bald... how the hell do you think LLLT alone is going to save your hair?

jksl · Post by **jksl** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:41 am

To those who are shedding ridiculously:

Are you finding any of your shed thick hairs to have random curls/bends/twists along the strand?

Lava212 · Post by **Lava212** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:46 pm

I finally finished my current helmet design and tried it out today. I have 250 lasers focused point-blank with each laser covering 1 square centimeter. I treated for 15 minutes and my head was sweaty afterwards and warm. I didn't receive any negative effects or soreness. No sunburn feeling. I plan on treating Mondays, Fridays, and the following Wednesday in a two week block. With my previous helmets I never experienced shedding or any loss but doubted if the lasers were penetrating deep enough. I think I solved the problem and my head is getting a complete and consistent dose all over, or the best I could do. I will report what happens in the following months. It took forever to finish my helmet but I feel this will be my last design. $\:D/$

medstudent 21 · Post by **medstudent 21** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:19 am

Awaiting regrowth,

I feel your pain too. let me first say that, i have been using 200 lasers 20 min 3 times a week religiously after shampoo and i have lost 30 percent of my hair in the past 4 months. I have hope however because it does help my itch and i do feel soreness. I might just cut down treatment time.
But yea i want to shave my head sooo bad cause i hate looking like this. My hair has wierd curls, is always clogged by sebum when it falls out and is SUPER thin
but here are my demographics
Hair Color:

Skin Color/Type: Jet black/ tan skin

Age (optional but might be interesting): 21

Minox: Never

Other Topicals: olux, nizoral cream

Internals (supplements/prescriptions): fish oil

LLLT Protocol: 20 X3 week

Description of your device: 200 diode omg helmet

Description of Sensations after LLLT: soreness

N0rwgnKid · Post by **N0rwgnKid** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:18 am

Lakers wrote:
NeverQuit wrote:@hapyman - I kept reducing times until the sunburn feeling stopped. I ended up with 10 minutes twice per week. Even at that I get a "slight" sunburn feeling just the day after. Also,maybe add to your list above percentage of loss or results(lack of) section. I can also add, all the lost terminals are now coming back as vellus NOT terminal.

Is this sunburnt feeling you guys talk about an inner sensation (feel) of the scalp or outer sensation(touch)?

Its an outer sensation. Irritablility, redness, dryness.. basically a slight "sunburn ".

Interesting approach here Hapyman

jdp710 · Post by **jdp710** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:06 am

"Awaiting Regrowth"

I will show pictures of my rapid loss just not tonight as it is late.

Can you please post pictures?

hairisgood · Post by **hairisgood** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:22 am

Yeah, post pictures. I really don't see how you could lose so much in such a little amount of time. I think you are exaggerating or have some other issue going on besides normal hairloss. At your rate you would be completely bald in one year starting from a full head of hair. That is just rediculous.

Dr. Watt · Post by **Dr. Watt** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:10 pm

hairisgood wrote:Yeah, post pictures. I really don't see how you could lose so much in such a little amount of time. I think you are exaggerating or have some other issue going on besides normal hairloss. At your rate you would be completely bald in one year starting from a full head of hair. That is just rediculous.

I doubt he is exagerating. I have been slowly losing my hair for 21 years. I lost more in months 3 - 5 while on LLT than I did in the last 4 years combined. This seems to be echoed by too many folks to be coindence. Something is going on. I am thinking overstimulation leading to shock loss. Of course, that is pure speculation on my part as I have no data.

I am down now to 12 mins every 3rd day. Let's see what happens and see what recovers in month 7 of my treatment.

jdp710 · Post by **jdp710** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:17 am

.
.

I already know who he is. Not to mention his user name gives away his intention. There are 2 other posters but not positive about the other two.

Back on real topic though as I don't like playing childish games of hiding behind user names with vendetta's. Geez, I miss the days of the old site where user names were exposed for who they really were. That way, you know who is who.

Anyway, as far as shedding, let's just say I haven't heard many people talk about a shed when adding mag chloride to their LLLT protocol. Granted there aren't a lot of people using it for long periods of time to bring out the percentages but I've talked about this a million times and created threads on this though so I won't go further.

As far as lack of results, I've heard many people mentioning better results once they clean their scalp "very thoroughly" with the right shampoo, etc. and not just washing your hair like normal ... I was one of them last year who slacked off on this part and once I realized what happened, I starting noticing results. With that said, I'll say that clay is probably the best and easiest way to accomplish this.

Total cost of clay for 6 months $10. Total cost of mag chloride for 6 months is $15.

BTW, people get sheds with Minoxidil and Propecia ---> anagen . Just saying a possibility for some LLLT experiencing a shed.

One poster mentioned that he felt his hair was thinner but didn't notice a shed. Without a shed, hair feeling thinner, is this caused by frizzy hair from heat of diodes?

You also have to remember someone who responds positively with LLLT tends to post once or twice. Someone who hasn't responded positively tends to post multiple times. That's why I created the postive testimonial thread thread to keep track of everyone. I stopped gather them though as it takes a lot of work and frankly, people weren't reading them and also weren't reading what other LLLT users used in their protocol. If anyone wants to gather the negative and also neutral testimonials that'd be great.

hope this helps

Jedder · Post by **Jedder** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:01 am

JDP710 - I have a lot of time for your opinions, you seem a genuine guy and have no doubt that the results you have are real. I am also aware that some people may hide behind different user names to play games. From personal experience i can say that the 'laser shed' is real and it has coincided with the use of 'full coverage' devices. There are too many people posting now for this to be part of a vendetta. I dont doubt that lasers can and do work for hair loss, but i think the amount of diodes and treatment times are debatable.

jdp710 · Post by **jdp710** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:59 am

Hey Jedder,

Thanks, I appreciate it. I heavily edited my post above to prevent the OP from threatening a lawsuit like what's happened at regrowtth previously.

But, yeah, I originally meant to leave in the part that I'm definitely not questioning the sheds that people are talking about. If I implied that then I'm sorry if people took my post the wrong way. I previously didn't post in this thread otherwise he'll say I'm trying to hijack this thread.

At any rate, I'd still like XXXXX to post a picture that he said he was going to. Or at least come out and tell us who he really is ...

One last helpful piece of advice regarding LLLT or hair loss in general is I'd recommend for other people struggling that they should follow someone else's protocol "to a T" that are getting results instead of making up a protocol from scratch. I remember talking to hapyman back in June, and was talked about briefly at regrowtth, about him using LLLT more often and maybe reducing treatment time to compensate ... he eventually settled down to 10 minutes x 4 and is happy. He has also mentioned something along the lines that results coincided around the time he added magnesium chloride but it could have been coincidence.

I know I'm probably getting on everyone's nerves, lol, but I truly believe that magnesium chloride would prevent a shed or limit due to stability and that cleaning scalp (better/easier is clay) is the one that gives results for those that don't see much with LLLT. Best thing to do is to use magnesium chloride and clay just in-case. Magnesium chloride doesn't have to be applied only towards scalp but might be better for other reasons seperate from LLLT.

hope this helps and good luck Jedder

robster · Post by **robster** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:30 pm

jdp710 wrote:.
.
As far as lack of results, I've heard many people mentioning better results once they clean their scalp "very thoroughly" with the right shampoo, etc. and not just washing your hair like normal ... I was one of them last year who slacked off on this part and once I realized what happened, I starting noticing results. With that said, I'll say that clay is probably the best and easiest way to accomplish this.

JDP what shampoo do you use pre-laser or which would you recommend?

thanks,
Rob

jdp710 · Post by **jdp710** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:23 pm

Hi robster,

Pert Plus for normal or oily hair worked very well for me. I also used Tresseme but the brand I use is discontinued. These both contain SLS so beware that most people fighting hair loss tend to go for a natural shampoo that doesn't contain this ... although I've never had a problem. Aubrey's is good for non SLS ones. This is one I use on occasion that Immortal Hair also uses.

http://www.iherb.com/aubrey-organics-me ... 10462?at=0

One thing about the aubrey's is that I haven't checked with my 200X magnifyer yet just how much sebum is removed with this brand. I know it's not going to be nearly as much as an SLS one though. 200x's magnification usually costs quite a bit so I bought this cheap one which is good to know how much sebum is on your face and scalp. One day, I'd love to post before and after pics of this to show everyone one day.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product. ... d=10082616

They also had a cheaper one if you can find it but may be discontinued.

With all this said, I've mentioned this to many people in the past and clay really is the best/easiest option to go with pre-LLLT. I use this one but is out of stock. I've been using and recommeding it for anti bacterial, anti fungal, etc. before Scalpure ever came out. Clay is very good at anti bacterial, etc., removing sebum, but doesn't stop receding hairline on it's own.

http://www.naturepurity.com/cgi-bin/pro ... from=detox

Most everyone else though tends to use bentonite clay which should also be good but I haven't tried it.

jksl · Post by **jksl** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:30 am

medstudent 21 wrote:My hair has wierd curls, is always clogged by sebum when it falls out and is SUPER thin
but here are my demographics

Sounds like what i'm going through. I am also a globally diffuse hairloss sufferer like you.

robster · Post by **robster** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:18 am

jdp710 wrote:Hi robster,

Pert Plus for normal or oily hair worked very well for me. I also used Tresseme but the brand I use is discontinued. These both contain SLS so beware that most people fighting hair loss tend to go for a natural shampoo that doesn't contain this ... although I've never had a problem. Aubrey's is good for non SLS ones. This is one I use on occasion that Immortal Hair also uses.

http://www.iherb.com/aubrey-organics-me ... 10462?at=0

Thank you JDP. Im currently trying out a few diffirent shampoos. This wouldnt happen to be similar to the Tresseme one you used?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Trese-Shampoo-V ... 109&sr=8-3

Awaiting Regrowth · Post by **Awaiting Regrowth** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:38 am

JDP - My identity?

My name is Aidan, 27 years old, live in UK and have been losing hair for approximately 3 years. Most recent though since being on LLLT is has been very rapid. Hence my post, and I don't appear to be alone in this.

Am I the 'LLLT lawsuit driven monster'?

No I am just a balding guy looking for answers.

No cloack and daggers here, although your paranoia may be a side effect of LLLT?

Best

OverMachoGrande · Post by **OverMachoGrande** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:52 pm

HOLY DAMN.

Your entire first post in this thread was outright slander, Awaiting Regrowth.

MAN! Holy crap, I can't believe that ANYONE would say those things at all! You're a freaking JOKE.

I've followed your posts, and from the first seconds you were here, you were already saying things like this. It's been what... FOUR MONTHS or something now that you've allegedly been using your helmet and you are saying all of this garbage?! FOUR MONTHS, and the world is ending for you -oh, and you just HAPPEN to be the guy that's been BASHING US SINCE THE BEGINNING. Yeah, ok, right.

It's amazing how coincidences like that always happen, huh. It just HAS to be a conspiracy on the LASER PEOPLE'S end, though, right??

GOOD LORD. How many more months do you think it would take so you could ham it up enough in every thread so that it looked liked NO ONE IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD HAS EVER HAD SUCCESS WITH A LASER HELMET?! Two more? Three more? How much longer until every thread is Awaiting Regrowth talking out of his ass about things that aren't true about hardworking, honest members of this forum? How much longer until the laser helmet has actually KILLED YOU! lol...

The picture you are painting CLEARLY has motives. There are no doubts in any legit person's mind. The way you phrase this and the way you phrase your past posts are simply unbelievable, and I hope that most people see you for what you are. I don't believe a word you say, my man... your history, attacks, and name calling against us has earned that.

I'll recap your old posts if you want me to. Trust me, you don't want me to. I could show you and everyone else how transparent it is. Very transparent. If you are actually a legit person, you have real problems, man. Like I said... I can prove that.

You are the one that has to deal with painting an erroneous picture -not us. Good riddance.

Awaiting Regrowth · Post by **Awaiting Regrowth** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:54 pm

I'm legit....so I MUST have real issues!

4.5 months now....still not looking like Tom Cruise! NOT HAPPY!

Don't want to beat you guys down, just want think the 'LLLT Guard Dogs' as I 've heard you been called should reflect on 'current' results.

You must admit, positive picture evidence has been pretty poor in quantity and quality of late?.....

And I repeat, I have issues.........

tonyj · Post by **tonyj** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:55 pm

"I bought the 'Ferrari' of hairloss that was clinically proven and had rave reviews!"

Did you buy the Lazerfish device?

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