ATP Info

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jdp710
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ATP Info

Post by jdp710 » Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:46 pm

"The main and the most important effect of laser light on cells is the accelerated production of the ATP (Adenosine TriPhosphate). ATP molecules are found in the cells of all living things. In animal and human systems, Adenosine TriPhosphate is synthesised in small cellular organelles called mitochondria. In the mitochondria, the primary cellular energy source - the ATP - is produced by combining oxygen with sugar derived from food.

ATP can be described as the 'energy carrier' or the 'energy shuttle' capable of harnessing the chemical energy generated from the breakdown of the foodstuffs and transporting it across cellular membranes for conversion into 'fuel' that is required for normal body functioning. Adenosine TriPhosphate is often referred to as the 'energy currency of life'.

If a person has insufficient levels of ATP available, the energy cannot reach the tissues. This can lead to a variety of health problems, such as a susceptibility to infectious diseases, poor wound healing, inflammation and swellings.

In short - the low level laser therapy devices (soft lasers or cold lasers) deliver light into living tissues (this process is also referred to as 'phototherapy'), increasing the ATP and shuttling more energy and nutrients around the body for healthy metabolism and the appropriate functioning of organs."

http://www.emeraldcoastlipolaser.com/im ... info-1.pdf



"Energy in the body is produced in the form of ATP (adenosine triphosphate—present in all living tissue ... through the process of cellular respiration."

http://vitanetonline.com/forums/1/Thread/1058


"In a study published today in Science, researchers led by UCLA molecular medicine professor Douglas Wallace modified a single mitochondrial gene in mice.

Their hearts quickly wore out and broke down.

Mitochondrial defects, which accumulate naturally during the course of a lifetime, have previously been found in diseased human heart tissue. However, it wasn't clear whether the defects were a cause or an effect of heart disease. The UCLA findings offer direct evidence of a causal connection.

By finding ways to rejuvenate or protect these cellular power generators, it may be possible to prevent heart disease, which kills over 600,000 Americans every year -- and that could be just the start.

"This provides strong support for the concept that aging and age-related diseases are associated with a decline in mitochondrial functional associated with the age-related destruction of mitochondrial DNA," said Wallace in an email."


http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008 ... uncti.html


"A growing body of evidence has demonstrated a link between various disturbances in mitochondrial functioning and type 2 diabetes.

This article demonstrates that type 2 diabetes is not merely a disease of insulin insensitivity or lack of insulin release but may be a global dysfunction of the mitochondrial energy system."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... ntent;col1

"Magnesium (Mg) is an intracellular cation. It is an essential element which catalyses more than 300 enzymatic reactions, in particular those involving ATP."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9529 ... t=Abstract

"ATP requires magnesium in order to be stable. Without magnesium, ATP would easily break down into other components, ADP and inorganic phosphate."

"Magnesium deficiency promotes excessive muscle tension"


" a magnesium deficiency appears to create resistance to insulin, Insulin resistance increases levels of insulin, which may result in a form of diabetes"


"Magnesium also appears to be able to also affect the nervous system by regulating the release of hormones"



http://web.mit.edu/london/www/magnesium.html

"Magnesium is at the center of life’s ability to absorb light and change its electromagnetic energy into organic chemical energy."

".... The result is that with low magnesium levels the mitochondria gradually calcify and energy production decreases"

http://www.life-enthusiast.com/twilight ... loride.htm



"It has been estimated that approximately one trillion cells and over a quadrillion mitochondria replicate every few weeks"

http://www.majidali.com/the.htm

"mitochondria are the source of the free radicals that initially damage the mitochondria, and with time the cumulative damage to these organelles results in the decline of cellular health and eventually cell death. Therefore, one can conceptualize the mitochondria as cellular-time capsules. At birth or perhaps even during fetal development, the clock begins to tick!

it has been clearly demonstrated that cumulative mitochondrial DNA damage is associated with aging."

http://juvenon.com/jhj/vol3no07.htm



"Lasers increase the mitochondrial production of ATP without increasing the production of free radicals. Anything that increases the production of ATP energy will speed healing and improve symptoms"

“Anything able to compromise ATP production in mitochondria could harm or even kill cells and so cause tissues to malfunction and symptoms to develop.”

"Anything that increases the production of ATP energy will speed healing and improve symptoms"

"The mitochondria are the major source for the production of free radicals"

"“The overproduction of free radicals can induce cell death"

“The mitochondrial theory of aging [leading theory into why we age] holds that as we live and produce ATP, our mitochondria generate oxygen free radicals that inexorably attack our mitochondria and mutate our mitochondrial DNA.” The accumulation of mitochondrial DNA mutations reduces ATP energy output below needed levels"

http://www.todayschiropractic.com/issue ... t_001.html



"Earlier, it was reported that chronic UV exposure of hairless mice for 2 h per day with a source mainly emitting UVA including 2% UVB, resulted in a significant increase in SOD activity that, however, following continued irradiation for 24 wk, substantially decreased below the level of mock treated animals These results suggest that chronic UV exposure for months, even at suberythermal doses, may compromise the SOD-dependent antioxidant defense."

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v112/ ... 0376a.html

And as far as the information that the reason for LLLT success is due to increased ATP production it's because of quotes like this that get my attention

"To paraphrase NASA research:

The mechanism of photobiomodulation by red to near-IR light at the cellular level has been ascribed to the activation of mitochondrial respiratory chain components, resulting in initiation of a signaling cascade that promotes cellular proliferation and cytoprotection."

Moreover, 660-680 nm of irradiation has been shown to increase electron transfer in purified cytochrome oxidase, increase mitochondrial respiration and ATP synthesis in isolated mitochondria"

Here's some good information about mitochondria to help back up my argument about unhealthy mitochondria & reduced ATP production/ability to store ATP = MPB

"Every nucleated cell in the body contains from 5 to 2000 mitochondria Mitochondria consume over 80 percent of the oxygen we breathe and make over 90 percent of the energy our cells need to function. They use the oxygen in the air we breathe to release energy from food. This process transforms food calories into chemical energy, water, and carbon dioxide. The released chemical energy is then stored in the form of adenosine triphosphate (ATP). ATP is the universal currency of energy used by all life on earth. It is like an electrical power source that drives the engines of the cell. This process of burning food to make ATP is called oxidative phosphorylation. Only mitochondria can do it. Without it, muscles could not contract and neurons could not fire. Mitochondria literally make it possible for us to move and think.

Defects in mitochondrial function have now been I inked to many of the most common diseases of aging. These include Type II Diabetes Mellitus, Parkinson Disease, Atherosclerotic Heart Disease, Stroke, Alzheimer Dementia, and Cancer. Over 50 million people in the US suffer from these chronic degenerative disorders. While it cannot yet be said that mitochondria cause these problems, it is clear that mitochondria are involved because their function is measurably disturbed. Even autoimmune diseases such as Multiple Sclerosis, Systemic Lupus Erythematosus, and Rheumatoid Arthritis appear to have mitochondrial components"

http://biochemgen.ucsd.edu/mmdc/brochure.htm

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OverMachoGrande
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Re: ATP Info

Post by OverMachoGrande » Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:11 pm

Ok, I'm prepared to say that magnesium should be in EVERY LLLT USERS REGIMEN. I think because of my particular diet, I probably have a decent level of it... but I think I'm going to add more and I'm going to order some this week.

It's a no-brainer, and it only took me 100 times seeing that magnesium is a key part of ATP production for it to jogg my brain, and I'm going to include this in the BASIC PROTOCOLS for success with LLLT.
Jdp710 in a past email to OverMachGrande wrote:"Once cells (including brain cells) produce ATP--which they must do every second of our lives--the ATP must be combined with magnesium for stable storage. (2) Otherwise, ATP breaks down at random, releasing its energy as heat" http://vrp.com/articles.aspx?page=LIST& ... 88&zType=2

"ATP requires magnesium in order to be stable. Without magnesium, ATP would easily break down into other components,

Also note that B vitamins are necessary for proper utilization of magnesium.

In some people, the problem might not be enough magnesium, but instead might be not enough vitamin D, which has an effect on magnesium absorption." http://web.mit.edu/london/www/magnesium.html
So, there is a long chain here, but this is the deal:

Increased ATP -------------> MORE HAIR

You increase ATP with lasers -that's what they do- and you make the ATP production/usage more efficient with magnesium.

I know that it takes a long time for the human body to recover from a magnesium deficiency, though. This isn't solved with a drink of water, this takes something like six months.

Anyway, like I said... I really think this should be a main part of every new LLLT users regimen!

-O.M.G.
  • "When all else fails, lie about OverMachoGrande." -observations by Jdp710
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Pete2
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Re: ATP Info

Post by Pete2 » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:54 pm

OverMachoGrande wrote:Ok, I'm prepared to say that magnesium should be in EVERY LLLT USERS REGIMEN. I think because of my particular diet, I probably have a decent level of it... but I think I'm going to add more and I'm going to order some this week.

It's a no-brainer, and it only took me 100 times seeing that magnesium is a key part of ATP production for it to jogg my brain, and I'm going to include this in the BASIC PROTOCOLS for success with LLLT.
Jdp710 in a past email to OverMachGrande wrote:"Once cells (including brain cells) produce ATP--which they must do every second of our lives--the ATP must be combined with magnesium for stable storage. (2) Otherwise, ATP breaks down at random, releasing its energy as heat" http://vrp.com/articles.aspx?page=LIST& ... 88&zType=2

"ATP requires magnesium in order to be stable. Without magnesium, ATP would easily break down into other components,

Also note that B vitamins are necessary for proper utilization of magnesium.

In some people, the problem might not be enough magnesium, but instead might be not enough vitamin D, which has an effect on magnesium absorption." http://web.mit.edu/london/www/magnesium.html
So, there is a long chain here, but this is the deal:

Increased ATP -------------> MORE HAIR

You increase ATP with lasers -that's what they do- and you make the ATP production/usage more efficient with magnesium.

I know that it takes a long time for the human body to recover from a magnesium deficiency, though. This isn't solved with a drink of water, this takes something like six months.

Anyway, like I said... I really think this should be a main part of every new LLLT users regimen!

-O.M.G.



Lasers / infr red devices are probably a partial answer but I think they *may* improve cellular health alongside a topical that :

1) lower inflammation
2) improve bloodflow
3) improve cellular health




Regards
Pete

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Re: ATP Info

Post by jdp710 » Sun Aug 23, 2009 8:35 am

Hey OMG,

Yeah, it definitely takes a long time to get magnesium levels back up. It's said somewhere between 75 - 90% of all Westerners are deficient in magnesium. Paradoxically, the worse your magnesium deficiency is, the harder it is for your body to absorb magnesium. Meaning, while it may take a normal person 6 months to bring their mag levels up with magnesium chloride, it may take someone with a severe deficiency much longer. And oral magnesium levels take much much longer to restore mag levels than magnesium chloride. I took oral magnesium for around 15 years and magnesium chloride is definitely the best option, IME. Definitely worth the extra money and hassle.

Here's a quote

" Dr. Shealy also states that the best absorbed oral magnesium is magnesium taurate, but in his experience, it takes up to five years of taking oral magnesium to restore intracellular levels to normal range."

http://www.puremagoil.com/comparison.htm

Also, according to Dr. David Watts, "magnesium deficiency being a common trait in people with hair loss."

more info = from hatchet "I read a reference about Dr. David Watts' recent findings about magnesium deficiency being a common trait in people with hair loss, so I asked him for more info. His company website can be found here: http://www.traceelements.com/

Here is his response to my email:

Presently I do not have any further information regarding Mg and hair loss. However, it is connected to blood sugar issues as well as the relationship between Na and Mg. Low Mg. is related to Na retention which can reduce normal flow to the hair follicle. This is probably the basis for the response of some individuals on diuretics in which they regain hair growth. The topical application of some of these substances also have an effect of reducing sodium concentrations around the follicle. Of course low Mg can also be related to bacterial growth and change in the normal acid mantle of the skin. Thyroid also effects Mg concentrations and of course high or low thyroid activity can effect hair growth. Other hormones can impact hair growth as well such as estrogen and progesterone and testosterone (Zn/Cu ratio).
Last edited by jdp710 on Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ATP Info

Post by jdp710 » Sun Aug 23, 2009 8:53 am

Hi Pete2,

IMO and IME IR lasers (808 nm and above) are not nearly as effective as red lasers for superficial treatments such as hair loss. They also didn't have any synergy effect IME with red lasers as I hoped last year when I tested.

Also, LLLT is one of the best treatment options for "1) lower inflammation, 2) improve bloodflow, 3) improve cellular health." so you're covered in this regard.

In fact, thread is actually devoted towards LLLT benefits towards improved cellular health via the increased ATP that is created by the mitochondria.

Here's a quote "Photobiomodulation by red to near-IR radiation has been demonstrated to enhance mitochondrial activity and promote cell survival in vitro by stimulation of cytochrome oxidase activity"

"Another important observation was that cells maintained under the condition of nutritional deficiency had both membrane and genetic material that was more preserved in comparison to the controls, in which the presence of an apoptotic nucleus could be observed in some cells. The results of the present study demonstrate that LLLT, in addition to providing positive biomodulation, acts in the re-establishment of cellular homeostasis when the cells are maintained under the condition of nutritional stress; it also prevents apoptosis in CHO K-1 cells"

"The gene expression profiles revealed hat 111 genes were regulated by the red light irradiation and can be grouped nto 10 functional categories. Most of these genes directly or indirectly play oles in the enhancement of cell proliferation and the suppression of apoptosis. To signaling pathways, the p38 mitogen-activated protein kinase signalling pathway and the platelet-derived growth factor signaling pathway, were found to be involved in cell growth induced by irradiation of low-intensity red light. Several genes related to antioxidation and mitochondria energy metabolism were also found to express differentially upon irradiation."

www(dot)laser(dot)nu/lllt/science(dot)htm

Also, the increased ATP will slow cellular senescence so it will also help in that regard as well.

""Now it appears that falling cellular ATP levels may also result in cellular senescence."

http://ouroboros.wordpress.com...ory/dna-damage-repair/

The increased lymphatic drainage from LLLT will also help as well.

Here is some info regarding LLLT anti-inflammatory effects as well

"Inflammation Reduction.

Immediately after an acute injury event, the body, in response to the disruption of the integrity of vascular, soft tissue, con­nective tissue and neurological processes, initiates a series of biological responses. The inflammatory reaction consists of both vascular and cellular events. Injury responsive components such as Mast cells, Bradykinins and Prostaglandins are acti­vated along with the vascular responses and cellular membrane reactions. All of these combined processes and events are represented by the symptoms of edema, inflammation, pain and functional debil­ity. LLLT can be effective in mediating both the symptoms and the underlying inflammatory process by the following ac­tions

""The treatment of blood with low intensity laser irradiation has become popular in a variety of clinical applications due to its anti-inflammatory, biostimulative and immune-stimulatory effects etc. Laser blood irradiation with infrared and red laser sources have the potential for stimulating antioxidant enzymes activities. At present study the influence of red and infra-red laser irradiation at different doses on superoxide dismutase (SOD) activity of peripheral blood lymphocytes was investigated in vitro. Suspensions of human lymphocytes (concentration of cells 1x106 cells/ml) were irradiated with red (670 nm) and infrared (980 nm) therapy lasers at different light doses (0-600 J/sample) and light power (4,5 and 15 mW for red; 50 and 500 mW for infrared) at 20°C. It is revealed doze-depended effect of red and infra-red laser irradiation on superoxide dismutaze activity of peripheral blood lymphocytes. The SOD activity, first of all, depends on irradiation time, but not on intensity or wavelength of irradiation. These data can explain the positive medical effects of a laser blood irradiation. The obtained results confirm a hypothesis that laser irradiation with the different wavelength characteristic (red and infra-red light ranges) reveals a stimulating effect on SOD - antioxidant defence system enzyme in peripheral blood lymphocytes."

"S.O.D. is proven to heal and reverse fibrosis "

"Studies have shown that SOD acts as both an antioxidant and anti-inflammatory in the body, neutralizing the free radicals"

www(dot)overmachogrande(dot)com/index.php?/omg/personal_notes/the_importance_of_sod_and_why_5mw_laser_diodes_are_great/

"Our Body is made up of approximately five trillion individual cells. Each cell must supply its own vital energy called ATP (adenosine triphosphate). Every job a cell must perform needs to be done with the aid of ATP. Light is the only medication that can directly increase the production of ATP. Our cell power plant, the Mitochondria, converts photon energy (light energy) into ATP (cell energy), when there is a deficiency. Research has shown that low level laser therapy can increase cellular ATP (body fuel) by as much as 150%.

This new fuel is then available to carry out the many repair and regenerative functions of our cells. In essence, there is more energy to expel waste products, and replace nutrients and proteins, the building blocks of our cells. LLLT increases lymphatic drainage by doubling the size of the lymphatic drainage ducts. This allows easier movement of cellular waste products and older protein by-products of cellular metabolism or tissue injury. The result is a rapid reduction in fluid retention, swelling, and inflammation. The increased collagen and epithelial production is also accompanied by the production of new capillaries and an increase in the density of the capillary bed. There is a rapid formation of many proteins, including collagen, a clear sticky substance, which is nature’s “repair” material. This newly formed collagen can then be used to regenerate tissue that once had been damaged.

The laser energy also changes the electrical potential across cell membranes. This causes a desensitization of nerve cells, which results in the reduction of pain impulses.

Osmosis states that no nutrient can transfer across the depolarized membrane of an injured cell. One of the most important functions of low level laser therapy is to re-polarize sick and injured cellular membranes. This allows for essential nutrients to transfer from the blood into the cell.

In summary, the photons produced by laser light normalise tissue by activating enzymes within cells, which triggers a chemical"

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Re: ATP Info

Post by jdp710 » Sun Aug 23, 2009 8:56 am

Here's a shorted version of what LLLT can do. For studies on how well it accomplishes these roles I'd recommend to visit laser.nu which has over 1500 abstracts

"SUMMARY OF HEALING EFFECTS

Light bio-stimulation influences functions in the following ways:

• Acceleration of the inflammatory stages, to achieve quicker healing - bursitis, tendonitis, arthritis,

• the general healing of wounds and injuries – diabetic ulcers, venous ulcers, bed sores, mouth ulcers, fractures, tendon ruptures, ligamentous tear, torn cartilage etc.

• Pain control - low back pain, neck pain, pain associated with inflammatory conditions, Carpel Tunnel Syndrome, arthritis, tennis elbow, golfer’s elbow, post herpetic neuralgia, muscle cramps etc.

• Stimulation of cellular replication (which is the key to healing and the production of healthy tissue)

• Increase of DNA and RNA synthesis

• Stimulation of collagen production (collagen is the main supportive protein of skin, tendon, bone, cartilage and connective tissue.) – excellent for beauty therapy, wrinkle management, acne

• Alteration of the immune system (helps immune cells combat infection)

• Stimulation of fibroblast activity (aids in the production of collagen)

• Enhancement of vascularisation (aids in improving circulation - poor circulation in diabetes, massage therapy, relaxation

• Stimulates the sodium potassium pumps in cell membranes which enables transport of essential nutrients into cells to allow healing."

www(dot)lightforhealth(dot)co(dot)uk/content/light-and-the-body(dot)pdf

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Re: ATP Info

Post by Awaiting Regrowth » Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:33 pm

No where in the article does it say ATP = Increase in hair.

Lets be real about things please.

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Re: ATP Info

Post by jdp710 » Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:06 pm

Awaiting Regrowth,

Did you even read this thread before you made that comment?

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Re: ATP Info

Post by OverMachoGrande » Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:15 pm

Awaiting Regrowth wrote:No where in the article does it say ATP = Increase in hair.

Lets be real about things please.
Those are OUR WORDS -words from people that are actually take the time to proactively make a difference in the hair loss world.

Instead of making a 10 second post that shows you aren't taking the time to digest the information, why don't you instead ask us how we came up with those conclusions. We've discussed this quite a bit before in other forums and have proved our conclusions reasonably enough to make statements like that. I'm sorry you missed them, but the fact is you did.

I think the problem you are having here is the fact that you are simply making those non-thought out statements to things that we have actually spent A LOT of time researching. We're a bit confused by your statements, and you, in turn, take that to mean we are hostile or something when we aren't.

I think you could get a lot further here and possibly even learn something that is GROUNDBREAKING if you did. We just want you to succeed here, both with your hair and not looking like you are just hurling insults at people that have really gone out of their way to pay their dues.

I've said it before... There aren't many heroes in the hair loss world -if any. What we need are more people that offer more "thought out" responses to a huge wealth of information put in front of them. We don't need people to hurl rocks at big buildings... we need more doers, movers, and shakers, or this forum dynamic will fail. You should take as much time responding to someone as they did putting into the original post -meaning actually "think out" what you are saying- and it'd only help to put you in a rational, unbiases, HELPFUL light.

That "helpful" word is probably the most important word in the hair loss forum world. Being helpful is a very noble thing, and likewise the people that only "take" from others and don't do anything but make negative posts that aren't helpful to others are quite the detractors.

-O.M.G.
  • "When all else fails, lie about OverMachoGrande." -observations by Jdp710
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Re: ATP Info

Post by N0rwgnKid » Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:02 pm

Awsome info here, really interesting, thanks for that ! :D

Now, guys, what is the theories around the "soreness" that we experience within our scalp muscles when lasering ? At first I thought this could not possibly be DOMS because laser stimulation and tisse damage was totally different things. I dont find that correct anymore, because, when we have an increase in ATP production we will have a following increase in contractive tissue activation meaning greater tissue damage. I definately experience that getting contact with the scalp muscles when lasering is much easier, and I have a greater contraction, still, they become tired much quicker. Any thoughts ?

OMG do you know if Chuck Maricle experience that his pasients get sore and headpumped from lasering in his clinic? Where is he anyways? :) , there is some interesting questions for him on his thread.

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Re: ATP Info

Post by jdp710 » Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:22 pm

I believe it's likely due to bradykinin.

I made some posts about bradykinin at the old site but because I've been banned from there I can't access my old information that I didn't save.
Last edited by jdp710 on Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ATP Info

Post by Awaiting Regrowth » Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:57 am

OverMachoGrande wrote:
Awaiting Regrowth wrote:No where in the article does it say ATP = Increase in hair.

Lets be real about things please.
Those are OUR WORDS -words from people that are actually take the time to proactively make a difference in the hair loss world.

Instead of making a 10 second post that shows you aren't taking the time to digest the information, why don't you instead ask us how we came up with those conclusions. We've discussed this quite a bit before in other forums and have proved our conclusions reasonably enough to make statements like that. I'm sorry you missed them, but the fact is you did.

I think the problem you are having here is the fact that you are simply making those non-thought out statements to things that we have actually spent A LOT of time researching. We're a bit confused by your statements, and you, in turn, take that to mean we are hostile or something when we aren't.

I think you could get a lot further here and possibly even learn something that is GROUNDBREAKING if you did. We just want you to succeed here, both with your hair and not looking like you are just hurling insults at people that have really gone out of their way to pay their dues.

I've said it before... There aren't many heroes in the hair loss world -if any. What we need are more people that offer more "thought out" responses to a huge wealth of information put in front of them. We don't need people to hurl rocks at big buildings... we need more doers, movers, and shakers, or this forum dynamic will fail. You should take as much time responding to someone as they did putting into the original post -meaning actually "think out" what you are saying- and it'd only help to put you in a rational, unbiases, HELPFUL light.

That "helpful" word is probably the most important word in the hair loss forum world. Being helpful is a very noble thing, and likewise the people that only "take" from others and don't do anything but make negative posts that aren't helpful to others are quite the detractors.

-O.M.G.
I don't think you are being hostile OMG but I think people are being mislead by some of your statements around certain subjects. Just keen that we give everyone the oppoetunity to look at the facts rather than what might make sense.

Regards

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Re: ATP Info

Post by jdp710 » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:37 am

Awaiting Regrowth,

Then please post information to the contrary that increased ATP will not help with your hair? I'm tired of posts that take 30 seconds to create challenging information without giving the reason why increasing ATP does not help with hair loss ....

As Gibson once said, "i think it is insane that only on hair loss forums posters challenge testimonials, instead of just offering their own."

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Re: ATP Info

Post by jdp710 » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:42 am

Hey N0rwgnKid,

I thought you might be interested in this patent regarding bradykinin. Again, bradykinin is probably the reason for soreness. And the ones who get sore are the ones with the most impressive results, IMO.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Method to promote, stimulate and/or delay hair loss by a bradykinin antagonist

Abstract

The present invention is directed to a method to promote, stimulate and/or delay hair loss by administering an effective amount of at least one bradykinin antagonists to promote, stimulate and/or delay hair loss to an individual in need thereof.

BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF THE INVENTION

It generally remains that it would be advantageous and useful to have available active compounds other than those already known, that are potentially more active and/or less toxic.

Bradykinin is a peptide of plasma origin released from a kininogen precursor by a plasma protease known as kallikrein (EC 3.4.21.24). This nanopeptide is one of the key mediators of inflammation and has mitogenic properties. The receptors for this kinin are divided into two main subtypes, B1 and B2. Bradykinin acts in particular on the B2 receptor and causes the stimulation of many second messenger production systems including the hydrolysis of inositol phosphates, the metabolism of arachidonic acid, the phosphorylation of tyrosine residues and the depolarization or hyperpolarization of the cell membrane.

The activation of certain receptors causes the activation of phospholipase C and thus the production of inositol 1,4,5-triphosphate (IP3) and of diacylglycerol (DAG). IP3 is known to cause the release of calcium from intercellular storage sites in cells, including keratinocytes. Calcium is described as an activator and regulator of many enzymes (proteases, phospholipases) and plays an important part in regulating the differentiation and proliferation of keratinocytes.

Bradykinin is involved in a large number of physiopathological disorders including: hypotension, contraction of the smooth muscles the digestive and respiratory tracts and in the uterus, pain, the proliferation of connective tissue and the release of different inflammation mediators: cytokines, leukotrienes and prostaglandins.

To date, to the Applicant's knowledge, it has neither been envisioned or even suggested that bradykinin receptors exist in the hair follicle, nor that bradykinin plays a part in the phenomena resulting in hair loss and/or hair growth.

Surprisingly and unexpectedly, the Applicant has just discovered that Minoxidil, which is known for its effects on regrowth of the hair and on the storage and/or release of calcium by cells (Matsumoto et al., Nippon Hifuka Gakkai Zasshi (1993), 103(2), 103-15), blocks the increase in the calcium concentration of the intracellular medium induced by bradykinin. The Applicant has also shown that this is likewise the case for Minoxidil sulphate for which there is general agreement in the prior art that this is probably the active derivative of Minoxidil in regrowth of the hair in vivo.

Thus, Minoxidil or derivatives thereof can act as a bradykinin antagonist.

The term bradykinin antagonist is understood to refer to any compound which is capable of partially, or even totally, inhibiting the biological effect of bradykinin, except for the compounds known to have an effect on the storage and/or release of calcium in the cell, such as Minoxidil and derivatives thereof.

Particularly, for a substance to be recognized as a bradykinin antagonist, it must induce a coherent pharmacological response which may or may not include its binding to the bradykinin receptor.

Thus, any compound which can interfere with the effects of bradykinin by binding to the bradykinin receptor (B1 or B2) and/or any compound which, independently of binding to the receptor(s), will induce by whatever mechanism an effect contrary to that known for bradykinin (for example interfering with bradykinin synthesis) falls within this definition.

The use of a bradykinin antagonist can thus be one of the effective routes for controlling hair loss and/or for promoting regrowth of the hair.

This discovery forms the basis of the present invention.

Thus, the invention relates to the use, in a cosmetic composition or for the preparation of a medicinal product, of an effective amount of at least one bradykinin antagonist, this antagonist or the medicinal product being intended to induce and/or stimulate hair growth and/or slow down hair loss.

According to the invention, it is possible to use a single bradykinin antagonist or several together. For example, it is possible to use a release antagonist and/or a synthesis antagonist in combination with a B1 and/or B2 receptor antagonist, for example.

As has been pointed out above, according to the invention, the term bradykinin antagonist is understood to refer to any compound which is capable of partially, or even totally, inhibiting the biological effect of bradykinin, except for the compounds known to have an effect on the storage and/or release of calcium in the cell, such as Minoxidil and derivatives thereof.

Among the bradykinin antagonists, it is preferred to use, for example, compounds which inhibit the synthesis and/or accelerate the catabolism of bradykinin, brady-kinin neutralizers, bradykinin receptor blockers such as those which interfere with the effects of bradykinin by binding to its receptor (B1 or B2), compounds which inhibit the synthesis of bradykinin receptors or compounds involved in modulating the signal transduced by bradykinin. These compounds can be of natural or synthetic origin.

http://www.pharmcast.com/Patents/Yr2002 ... 102202.htm

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N0rwgnKid
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Re: ATP Info

Post by N0rwgnKid » Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:18 pm

Thanksfor the info Jdp, very interesting. Now, if I understand correctly, please correct me if I havent as I am eager to learn, laser in some way work as a bradykinin-antagonist, or, stimulate the release of a bradykinin-antagonist(do you know what this might be ? ), or directly interferes with the synthesis of bradykinin on b1-b2 receptor sites ? And the release of bradykinin results in hypotension and muscle cell contraction(is it a transmittersubstans?)

What I find interesting about my soreness, is that it actually comes and goes in periodes really. When I have intentionally skipped treatments, I get more sore and headpumped. I dont know how to relate this to the bradykining theory, maybe there is some storage and extra release etc etc.

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Re: ATP Info

Post by jdp710 » Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:34 pm

N0rwgnKid

Here's a good quote

"Decreased Bradykinin levels since Bradykinins elicit pain by stimulating nociceptive afferents in the skin and viscera, mitigation of elevated levels through LLLT can result in pain reduction. Laser induced decrease in plasma kallikrein, increase in Kininase II and increase in NO [nitric oxide] are considered the contributors to this Bradykinin decrease."

http://laserthera.com/how_does_lllt_work.htm

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Re: ATP Info

Post by Raxe » Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:07 pm

Hey JDP, Thanks for all of your help in both forums, weve never interacted, but I've lurked for over a year and I've enjoyed reading your informative posts.

What is the dosage on the mag oil you apply? And how do you apply it? Sorry if this has been answered before.

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Re: ATP Info

Post by jdp710 » Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:01 am

Hey Raxe,

Thank You. I appreciate it.

I use the puremagoil.com brand. I also use Nigari and use it to soak my feet occasionally. The nigari flakes you can save a lot of money and just make your own magnesium chloride instead of buying the magnesium chloride itself. Here's a post on how to make magnesium chloride out of nigari flakes

"I've made mag. oil by supersaturating water with nigari. I ordered Mag. oil and my homemade looks and feels the same.

Just heat water and start adding lots of mag. chloride to it [nigari]....can't recall my exact recipe but it's like 1qt water plus 1 cup mag chloride crystals [nigari].

Nigari is also wonderful to have around instead of Epsom salt. Mark Sircus said it will absorb much better into the skin than Mg sulfate (Epsom salt. It sure does for me ...I need much less of it in a bath."


http://www.curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=920719#i


To answer your question from my understanding a lot of brands of magnesium chloride are watered down and that's why there is a cost difference. Also, some brands may contain heavy metals and contaminants such as mercury. Ancient Minerals and puremagoil.com brands have been tested and are two of the ones that I'd recommend. I bought the puremagoil.com over the leader in the industry Ancient Minerals as there is a cost savings when buying in bulk.

With that said, buying nigari is a very cost effective method. This brand of nigari uses the ion exhange method which supposedly removes most all contaminants ... something like 99.9%, but I'm going off memory http://www.simply-natural.biz/Nigari.php

As for how much to use it really depends on how watered down the magnesium chloride is. The puremagoil.com brand is very concentrated. Here's a quote from there website

"Using 4 to 6 sprays of Magnesium Oil under each arm, armpit and sides of the body.

184,000 mg. / 8oz. Bottle = 115 mg per spray

115 mg per spray/ 8 sprays per day (Minimum Recommended) = 920 mg per day"


http://www.puremagoil.com/suggested_use.htm

I personally use 10 - 15 sprays of the puremagoil.com. about 2 or 3 times per week before my shower. I can't tell a difference if I use more than that. If the magnesium chloride is less concentrated than the puremagoil.com than you'll need more. Also, don't apply to your stomach as there aren't very many blood vessels there to get the magnesium chloride in your system. Under armpits, scalp face and upper body are all good places.

About applying it topically I'd highly recommend for it not to be left on your scalp once it starts to dry as it may irratate your skin. I've heard of two people who have done this and have mentioned a shed. I haven't heard anybody mention a shed if it's rinsed off before it starts to dry though. You technically shouldn't have to apply it to your scalp but I believe it helps for MPB. Here's a quote

"Spraying directly on area's of concern excellerates direct healing of problem"

I also believe topical magnesium will help slow or even help prevent gray hair as well. I no longer have a single gray hair anymore but I've done other things to reverse this so I can't claim the reason is 100% LLLT or magnesium or even coconut oil as coconut oil is known for preventing gray hair but I believe these are the 3 main reasons and those 3 also have overlapping benefits.

Anyway, when first using it, it may irritate your skin after a minute or two. I'd recommend for it to be washed off once it starts to irritate your skin. Eventually, it won't irritate your skin any longer. The reason why I believe is because the skin is dry ... probably from less hyaluronic acid in that area. Hyaluronic acid is basically what makes your skin smooth. Magnesium is partly responsible for creating hyaluronic acid so a magnesium deficiency will have less hyaluronic acid. Hyaluronic acid is also what prevents wrinkles and sagging skin as we get older.

I think I answered your question and more, lol. Here's some more interesting info



"Applications of Magnesium Oil (Mag Oil) and reported results:· Mag Oil massaged into arthritic joints will often give almost instant relief from pain · Mag Oil sprayed on sun damaged skin regularly will begin to rejuvenate from the inside out and after a few months will be significantly restored. · Mag Oil sprayed on wrinkled skin will eventually begin to smooth out the wrinkles · Mag Oil sprayed and massaged into graying hair each evening and left on overnight, will begin to restore natural hair color within weeks and stimulate the growth of hair and greatly improve hair texture. · Mag Oil massaged onto balding areas of the scalp will begin to induce the growth of new hair. · Mag Oil sprayed into the mouth several times daily will stimulate the medulla elongata (?) and develop enamel on the teeth. · Mag Oil massaged into fibromyalgia type pain will often quickly provide relief · Mag Oil mixed into a hot bath with some Prill water, will provide a very relaxing soak while delivering a huge amount of magnesium to the cells. · Mag Oil rubbed regularly onto age spots will often cause them to fade and virtually disappear. · Mag Oil regularly rubbed into scar tissue will cause that tissue to reform into normal tissue. · Mag Oil rubbed onto skin tags will cause them to eventually drop off. · Mag Oil used in a bath or sprayed on after a shower, will relieve stress. · Mag Oil may be used in a foot bath or even a hand bath if circumstances or condition do not permit soaking in a tub and the full benefits of a soak can still be experienced. In only 15 to 20 minutes, our magnesium deficient bodies will extract all of the available magnesium.

References from Magnesium Deficiency in “Holy Water, Sacred Oil” by Dr. C. Norman Shealy, M.D., PhD"

http://mrpaul.wordpress.com/2007/05/

BTW, what I highlighted about regrowing hair after massaging magnesium chloride in. Gibson on another forum has mentioned regrowth if he leaves magnesium chloride in his hair overnight but not if it's taken out earlier than that. I haven't noticed this myself but I believe LLLT and magnesium benefits both are in preventing future hair loss and not in regrowing hair. I think that's where everyone gets confused. If they don't notice a lot of regrowth, they stop treatment looking for the next product to regrow a lot of hair. I've said this for about a year about LLLT and 10 months on magnesium but it seems some people have a hard time understanding this part. So again, LLLT and/or magnesium is all about stopping future hair loss and not necessarily about regrowing hair. Some people may regrow hair but not everybody does.

For more info about magnesium chloride, puremagoil.com has a lot of good info. And again, you can use that brand of Nigari I linked to to save a lot of money.

hope this helps

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Re: ATP Info

Post by Pete2 » Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:12 am

jdp710 wrote:Hi Pete2,

IMO and IME IR lasers (808 nm and above) are not nearly as effective as red lasers for superficial treatments such as hair loss. They also didn't have any synergy effect IME with red lasers as I hoped last year when I tested.

Also, LLLT is one of the best treatment options for "1) lower inflammation, 2) improve bloodflow, 3) improve cellular health." so you're covered in this regard.

In fact, thread is actually devoted towards LLLT benefits towards improved cellular health via the increased ATP that is created by the mitochondria.
In summary, the photons produced by laser light normalise tissue by activating enzymes within cells, which triggers a chemical"


Thanks for the reply - I really think the laser treatments are definately worth including alongside topcials.


I know a little about mitochondria :)


There is a doctor in the UK who has devoted much of her life to its study :)




Regards
Pete

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Re: ATP Info

Post by Raxe » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:57 pm

JDP, thank you so much, I really appreciate you taking the time to respond in such depth.

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Re: ATP Info

Post by robster » Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:50 am

Very interesting thread. Ive just been using Mg for a week now, spraying it under my armpits only on a daily basis several times. Should we really be using it topically as well?

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