What gauge to use for level 2 and 3 laser helmet wiring?

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Meta-Monster!
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What gauge to use for level 2 and 3 laser helmet wiring?

Post by Meta-Monster! » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:52 pm

I have a few questions regarding laser helmet wiring. The helmet I have now I made back in November a-la OMG's fantastic how-to guide. Back then I used 22-gauge wire for my level 2 and 3 connections. However, I remember reading on Regrowth awhile ago that everyone was swapping for lower gauges. What is the optimal gauge wire I should use when I rewire my time-travel device? (Err.. I mean laser helmet).

Another question. I picked up a 'multimeter' to measure the voltage of my laser setup, however, the readings the device is giving me are somewhat alarming. When I measure the power going into my power supply (which is the 7amp RS-35-3.3 model recommended on OMG's site) I get an AC reading of around 120, but when I measure what is coming out (the symbols of the points where I'm measuring are -V and +V) I get a reading of just 6.8!!? The power supply is supposed to produce 7 amps, so I'm wondering whether I should interpret this measurement as 6.8 amps (good) or 6.8 volts (very bad). Since the diodes of my helmet seem to glow very brightly I hope it's the former. Does anyone have any advice regarding this?

Any answers, or relevant links to other threads, are greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

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Re: What gauge to use for level 2 and 3 laser helmet wiring?

Post by TheFunkyStumpfighter » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:42 am

I used 14g wire for my level 2 and 3 connections, and pieces of 12g wire to connect to the power cable running from the power supply. Considering the power cord I use to plug in to the wall (the one provided in OMG's DIY kit) is 14g, the 12g wire is probably unnecessary. I used 18g for my level one connections.

Someone with a bit more knowledge is going to have to help you with your power supply issues, though. Not my area of expertise (insofar as I have expertise).
I currently use Propecia and i have a Laser comb, what do you guys suggest to use as a good daily shampoo? This HairGen is not going to grow hair cmon guys. Is Nioxin the best out there?

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Re: What gauge to use for level 2 and 3 laser helmet wiring?

Post by hapyman » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:54 am

Meta-Monster! wrote:What is the optimal gauge wire I should use when I rewire my time-travel device? (Err.. I mean laser helmet).
Depends on a few things. How many diodes per wire and length of the wire. For the main connection, coming off of your PSU, I would go with 12 or 14 to be safe. Especially if you plan on having it go a decent distance. Distance increases resistance.

For the other levels 14-18 should be ideal. 18 only if you are using it for a few diodes. When conjoining multiple clusters of diodes I would use a thicker (lower number) gauge wire.
Meta-Monster! wrote: I picked up a 'multimeter' to measure the voltage of my laser setup, however, the readings the device is giving me are somewhat alarming. When I measure the power going into my power supply (which is the 7amp RS-35-3.3 model recommended on OMG's site) I get an AC reading of around 120, but when I measure what is coming out (the symbols of the points where I'm measuring are -V and +V) I get a reading of just 6.8!!? The power supply is supposed to produce 7 amps, so I'm wondering whether I should interpret this measurement as 6.8 amps (good) or 6.8 volts (very bad). Since the diodes of my helmet seem to glow very brightly I hope it's the former. Does anyone have any advice regarding this?
The amount of power going INTO the PS is never a problem. AC sockets in the US are standard and your PS is more than capable of handling that. What the power supply does is take about 120 Volts @ ~2 amps AC and converts it up to 3.3V @ 7 Amps. I say "up to" because the number of amps being output are conditional on the number of iodes in place. Hope that makes sense.

Anyway that 6.8 depends on what setting you have your multimeter at. For measuring by the diodes you want it set to DC voltage not AC. Big difference. From your description it sounds like you are measuring AC voltage from a DC source. I suggest if you can't figure out the right dial setting on your multimeter you check the manual that came with it. It should explain everything. Or if you give me your make/model # perhaps I can write a more detailed description.

Hope this helps and I apologize in advance if you know all of this info already :oops: . But let me know if you need anymore help. :D

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Re: What gauge to use for level 2 and 3 laser helmet wiring?

Post by OverMachoGrande » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:28 am

Hey, Meta-Monster!

Thank you for the compliments! I desperately need to update that wiring guide, but I'm not going to have the opportunity to do that until September -and I'm probably going to do it in video form so it can reach a greater number of people!

If you email me at omg@overmachogrande.com, I can send you a link to a page where I go through the changes a little bit -but I don't want to post it here because it links to that horrible, scam forum Regrowth.com, and I certainly don't want to direct more people there until I have to. Like I said, I WILL update this soon, but I just can't do it yet.

In a nutshell, I've found that the wiring of a tremendous amount of diodes results in different circumstances than the simple parallel wiring forumlas give. There are more variables at play -and it's not just because we are using wire nuts vs. soldering, but the more diodes you have, the more "inefficient" the power supply is.

The 15/20 amp ones we use are still plenty, even for a 415 diode helmet, but there is a lot of loss with the volts and amps dependent on the number of diodes you add and the increase total length of wire -which like I said, is something a little bit different that the parallel wiring formulas account for. So, USE THICKER WIRE THAN YOU NEED. That solves the problems!

With my original lasermessiah helmet that I originally wired with all 22 gauge, I kept the 22 gauge for the level twos (the wire that goes off of the diode clusters). 22 gauge is fine here, but I use either 18 or 16 gauge on the helmets I build for others simply "just to make sure".

For the level threes, I always use 14 gauge now -which would ordinarily be enough to do 400 diodes on it's own, but it only has to power 1/3rd or 1/4th of the helmet (depending on how I wire it).

For the tail piece, I always use 12 gauge now. Yes, that's way more than you need, but we aren't dealing with straight-up wiring dynamics, so I want that extra headroom. PLUS... the 12 gauge fits better into the yellow wire disconnects, which is THE WEAKEST POINT OF THE HELMET, and it helps to have that area as strong as you can!

The helmet cord I use is a 10-12" 14 gauge cord, so yeah, you are going back to 14 gauge, but there aren't any connections at this point and everything seems to preform fine. In fact, I've changed that 14 gauge cord to a 12 gauge cord, and I noticed NO DIFFERENCE in the performance of the volts/amps of the helmet, whereas I DO NOTICE a difference when I chance the gauge of the tail pieces and the level threes!

So, there you go... we aren't dealing with something easy to calculate here, and there is NO HARM in using wire that is way more thick that you need it -only the benefit of ensuring that you are getting the best amount of power you can.

So, the "rule" is for new helmets... use 18 or 16 for the level ones (just to be sure), 14 for the level twos, and 12 for the end pieces, and a helmet cord no longer than 12 feet with that is at least 14 gauge.

With your old helmet, it is not worth it to change the 22 gauge to 18/16 gauge on the level twos because the difference there isn't really with volts/amps... it's "security" that even if the connections get a little loose or something, you'll be sure to have a decent connection.

That's all I've got, and that's pretty much it!

-O.M.G.
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Re: What gauge to use for level 2 and 3 laser helmet wiring?

Post by OverMachoGrande » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:26 pm

Well, shoot... I might as well go ahead and talk about the other changes, too, and make THIS the thread that I send people to until I get the new set of instructions completed!

First of all... here is the 16 and 14 gauge wire I use, and I find them at WALMART in the automotive section:

Image

Image

And the 12 is there, also. Don't let the Walmart employees fool you.... the DO have that wire! Like I said, it's in the automotive section, and if you cut the 16 gauge wires into 9" pieces, you will have enough to do one 300 diode helmet if you make the cluster size about 12 diodes. Also, the use of the word "automotive" in front of the term "wire" makes no difference for our purposes... it's still "wire", and like I said... this is the exact wire I use!

Ok, with the clusters, yes... I make the cluster size 12 diodes when I can (4 x 3). It gets a lot more difficult if you make the cluster bigger than that. I'll have to put some pictures in here, but to make it look more even, I make "theoretical clusters of 12". It's really tough for me to describe this into words, but I look at the diodes in RECTANGLES. Even if the cluster has 2 on the bottom row, three on the middle row, and 4 on the top row, I still group them as if they were a group of 4/4/4. This makes the appearance of the helmet a lot "cleaner".

I know that's hard to imagine what I'm talking about, but I'll try to post a picture at some point in the future.

Now, that brings us to the next BIG THING: Completely eliminate the "flux capacitor"! I DO NOT recommend the "flux capacitor" anymore because all of the wiring problems I've had have resulted from that -and I've heard from others that they've had problems with that as well. The problems I have is that the bare wire will eventually break where it screws in to the barrier strip.

There are other reasons why I don't recommend the "flux capacitor" and "switchable zones", but don't make me go into that here! lol... The MAIN REASON is that it's a much "better helmet" WITHOUT IT -enough to the point where I, the former champion of switchable zones", no longer do it!

Ok, now take a look at the back of a 300 diode helmet without the flux capacitor:

Image

...and this brings us to the next point: USE YELLOW INSULATED WIRE DISCONNECTS FROM RADIO SHACK FOR THE END PIECES.

That yellow gauge says that it is for 14 gauge wire, but I find the 12 gauge fits much better into them -and you have the added security of the extra volts/amps capacity from the 12 gauge.

Important... you NEED TO SECURE THOSE WIRE DISCONNECT WITH HEAT SHRINK TUBING (the diode is for scale purposes):

Image
These are 1/4" x 4" Ideal Heat Shrink Tubes from Lowes. I use them on the end pieces as well as the end of the helmet cord. All you have to do is put them on and use a match or a lighter, and MAGIC happens!

Like I said, and I can't stress this enough... the WEAKEST POINT on any helmet is the connectors. If a helmet fails, I first point at these before I even consider anything else. It would be fantastic if you wired the helmet cord directly to the helmet, but that'd suck sometimes if the helmet was always tethered to the power supply. SO... you have to have some insulated wire disconnects if you want the most practical helmet possible. That means that these heat shrink tubes are pretty important -they help resist the wear and tear associated with the plugging in and unplugging of the helmet cord to the back of the helmet!

Ok, there we go, and I think we are up to speed! I want to stress one last time in case I haven't mentioned it in this thread that if you have previously built a helmet before and haven't been following the changes, you should implement these "new rules" -which have evolved from trial and error- and take them to heart!

I might as well show the IDEAL DIODE, as well! This is how I prepare the diodes:

Image

...and yes, the lens cap is fully removed! So yes, if you have a 400 kabillion diode helmet, you need to unscrew 400 kabillion lens caps and remove the brass cap, the plastic lens, and the spring, cut 400 kabillion wires down to 4", and strip 400 kabillion pairs diode wires down to a 1" bare section. The length of the diode wire DOES impact the overall power/amps of the helmet, and the increased bare section enables a much more secure connection. I know this from gobs of experience! lol...

Let me know if I skipped anything!

-O.M.G.
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Re: What gauge to use for level 2 and 3 laser helmet wiring?

Post by Meta-Monster! » Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:15 pm

Thanks for the great reply. When I was getting the 6.8 reading with the multimeter I was in fact using the AC mode to take the measurement. I switched it to DC and am now getting a reading of 3.3 (3.3V@7amps is good news, right?).

hapyman wrote:
Depends on a few things. How many diodes per wire and length of the wire. For the main connection, coming off of your PSU, I would go with 12 or 14 to be safe. Especially if you plan on having it go a decent distance. Distance increases resistance.

For the other levels 14-18 should be ideal. 18 only if you are using it for a few diodes. When conjoining multiple clusters of diodes I would use a thicker (lower number) gauge wire.

:D
I'd like to ask your opinion on my planned setup if you don't mind.

I picked up a 6' piece of 10 gauge cord which I'm going to run from my PSU to my helmet's 'flux capacitor'. (I don't use zones or disconnects because they, well, tend to get disconnected and are kinda a pain in the ass). For just my level 3 connections I'm going try using some 12 gauge wire left-over from a purchase I made awhile ago. For the level 2 connections I would like to go with the 18 simply because it's so much easier to work with.

My helmet has 207 of the standard axiz diodes, runs on a 7amp PSU, and each of my 'clusters' is a group of diodes ranging in number anywhere from 7 to 12. If I'm using 18 gauge wire for my level 2 connections what would be the ideal number of diodes to a cluster? (You previously alluded to a 'few', but did you really mean just 2 or 3 diodes?)

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Re: What gauge to use for level 2 and 3 laser helmet wiring?

Post by Meta-Monster! » Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:39 pm

OverMachoGrande wrote:
Thank you for the compliments! I desperately need to update that wiring guide, but I'm not going to have the opportunity to do that until September -and I'm probably going to do it in video form so it can reach a greater number of people!

If you email me at omg@overmachogrande.com, I can send you a link to a page where I go through the changes a little bit -but I don't want to post it here because it links to that horrible, scam forum Regrowth.com, and I certainly don't want to direct more people there until I have to. Like I said, I WILL update this soon, but I just can't do it yet.

With my original lasermessiah helmet that I originally wired with all 22 gauge, I kept the 22 gauge for the level twos (the wire that goes off of the diode clusters). 22 gauge is fine here, but I use either 18 or 16 gauge on the helmets I build for others simply "just to make sure".

For the level threes, I always use 14 gauge now -which would ordinarily be enough to do 400 diodes on it's own, but it only has to power 1/3rd or 1/4th of the helmet (depending on how I wire it).

For the tail piece, I always use 12 gauge now. Yes, that's way more than you need, but we aren't dealing with straight-up wiring dynamics, so I want that extra headroom. PLUS... the 12 gauge fits better into the yellow wire disconnects, which is THE WEAKEST POINT OF THE HELMET, and it helps to have that area as strong as you can!

So, the "rule" is for new helmets... use 18 or 16 for the level ones (just to be sure), 14 for the level twos, and 12 for the end pieces, and a helmet cord no longer than 12 feet with that is at least 14 gauge.

With your old helmet, it is not worth it to change the 22 gauge to 18/16 gauge on the level twos because the difference there isn't really with volts/amps... it's "security" that even if the connections get a little loose or something, you'll be sure to have a decent connection.
Thanks for the sagely advice OMG. Releasing a video version of your how-to guide is a great idea. I don't think even the laziest guy with AGA out there could find an excuse not to build a helmet after watching a video of one being constructed before his very eyes.

Regarding the previous 22 gauge wiring of my level 2 connections. Unfortunately, before even posting this thread I stripped off all the wiring on my helmet down to the diode level. Since I'm going to have to rewire it all again anyway I might as well play it safe and use a thicker gauge this time around.

One more quick question if you don't mind. I noticed you spoke of still using disconnects with your new helmets. I tried that for awhile and thought it was kind of an unnecessary pain, so I started just directly wiring both the level 3 wires and the PSU-to-the-helmet-powercord wires directly into a 'flux capacitor' (the type suggested in your guide actually). Do you think this negatively affects the laser output in anyway? What's the reason you've continued creating disconnects if you're no longer following the zones principle?

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Re: What gauge to use for level 2 and 3 laser helmet wiring?

Post by Meta-Monster! » Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:02 pm

OverMachoGrande wrote:Well, shoot... I might as well go ahead and talk about the other changes, too, and make THIS the thread that I send people to until I get the new set of instructions completed!
Sweet. I feel somewhat blessed knowing now that my thread was selected to be THE thread people will come to time and time again for future reference. Then again, the more I think about it... that feeling I'm getting might just be a result of drinking too much expresso and have nothing to do with blessedness after all.


OMG, thanks for the detailed instruction. This completely answers the question I just raised about the role of disconnects and flux capacitors in the revised helmet design.

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Re: What gauge to use for level 2 and 3 laser helmet wiring?

Post by Sonic74 » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:12 am

Hi guys,

today I bought a multimeter and measured the voltage on the output of the power supply (it's a meanwell)

and on my diodes !

On the output of the power supply the voltage is 3.3 V

and on the diodes I'm getting 2.9 Volts.

The gauge on 2nd Level connection is 16

and on 3rd Level is 14 !

What's your suggest OMG ?

Thanks

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Re: What gauge to use for level 2 and 3 laser helmet wiring?

Post by OverMachoGrande » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:27 am

2.9 volts is probably fine! That's actually a pretty "reasonable loss" for these helmets, and if you've got those really think wires, the loss is simply from the NUMBER OF DIODES. There really isn't anything you can do about it, except for TURN UP the number of volts!

With the power supplies I have, it has the "voltage adjuster knob" (on the far right of the meanwell stlye adapters) and I turn up the voltage to maximum (all the way clockwise), and that makes it so a 300 diode helmet is somewhere in the 3.5 or 3.6 volt range.

Do you have an voltage knob, and is it set at maximum?
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Re: What gauge to use for level 2 and 3 laser helmet wiring?

Post by Sonic74 » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:47 am

Yes it has a voltage knob and if I set it at 3.5 or 3.6 V ,

I'm gettinng 3 or 3.3 V on the diodes !

But my diodes after 4 or 5 minutes of usage there are getting burning HOT !

That's why I'm so skeptical about raise up the voltage of Power Supply !

Does this could have an affect on the effectiveness of the diodes ??

Thanks

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Re: What gauge to use for level 2 and 3 laser helmet wiring?

Post by hapyman » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:31 pm

I'd like to ask your opinion on my planned setup if you don't mind.

I picked up a 6' piece of 10 gauge cord which I'm going to run from my PSU to my helmet's 'flux capacitor'. (I don't use zones or disconnects because they, well, tend to get disconnected and are kinda a pain in the ass). For just my level 3 connections I'm going try using some 12 gauge wire left-over from a purchase I made awhile ago. For the level 2 connections I would like to go with the 18 simply because it's so much easier to work with.

My helmet has 207 of the standard axiz diodes, runs on a 7amp PSU, and each of my 'clusters' is a group of diodes ranging in number anywhere from 7 to 12. If I'm using 18 gauge wire for my level 2 connections what would be the ideal number of diodes to a cluster? (You previously alluded to a 'few', but did you really mean just 2 or 3 diodes?)
I have as many as 6 attached to one 18 gauge wire and no problems. The 10 gauge and 12 gauge sound like more than enough.
Sonic74 wrote:Yes it has a voltage knob and if I set it at 3.5 or 3.6 V ,

I'm gettinng 3 or 3.3 V on the diodes !

But my diodes after 4 or 5 minutes of usage there are getting burning HOT !

That's why I'm so skeptical about raise up the voltage of Power Supply !

Does this could have an affect on the effectiveness of the diodes ??

Thanks
I suggest you turn it back down and see what happens. They will burn out very quickly while running at that temperature. These diodes should be able to function at full capacity even with less than 3 volts.

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