Low Level Lasers cannot penerate enough to reach follicles?

[goten574]

Is this true or complete rubbish?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=timFphPO ... r_embedded

I know virtually nothing about lasers or LLLT but wanted opinions on the above video.

[zixcreator]

Oh Boy. Here we go again.

Suffice it to say the guy has been proven wrong. You up for this OMG?

[OverMachoGrande]

ABSOLUTE COMPLETE RUBBISH. ...And not only "rubbish", but the work of someone that does NOT have your "best interests" in mind.

Before the thread was deleted at Regrowth, I made a PDF document of the last discussion we had about it, and we absolutely prove that man is a FRAUD -yes, a FRAUD:



This is PROOF.

Whenever we talk about this, he either threatens to sue the forums or pays the owner to make the threads disappear, by the way. He doesn't have one bit of actual evidence to back up his claims, but instead resorts to attacking us personally verses defending his points. So, since everything has been has been covered in that PDF, there really isn't any reason for me to go into it here.

But man, have you not seen the positive testimonials thread?! http://www.hairlossfight.com/forums/vie ... =31&t=1290 Have you not seen the scores of people that have had great results with it? Shoot... look in the Sunetics Before/After pictures thread: http://www.hairlossfight.com/forums/vie ... =31&t=1283. You should know right off the bat from your forum pals that what Mr. Feller is saying is bogus! THERE ISN'T ANY REAL SCIENCE IN THAT VIDEO! lol...

There are no doubts about this at all, and I'm glad I have that thread saved because this comes up like clockwork every few months even though he was successfully DESTROYED about this after he released it.

-O.M.G.

[Chuck Norris]

My autosignature should summarize this. All of these fantastic groundbreaking treatments -lasers as a treatment for dimentia, lasers as a treatment for parkinsons, and so on- that are being discovered by medical bodies with far more credentials that this one PHD (Harvard, NASA, etc), but yet this guy says none of it is possible beause it will help five people with bad experiences with a hairmax laser comb think that he's brilliant. You should read that PDF document word by word.

[goten574]

I believe you guys and not Feller. Those laser result pics are really impressive, but why isn't everyone trying this? Wouldn't we all be several NW lower than what we are now?

[OverMachoGrande]

I believe you guys and not Feller. Those laser result pics are really impressive, but why isn't everyone trying this? Wouldn't we all be several NW lower than what we are now?

Most everyone at the old board is! Lol... Even Sam is here. Most of us have had good results. Now, if you're asking why it's taking a year to spread to other sites, it's a reason you may not want to hear -controlled content! I won't go into that, though, because I'm sure I look like I'm crzy when I do!

I'm pretty sure a lot of people here would back me up on that if asked, though.

[chore boy]

[zixcreator]

OMG wrote:

Most everyone at the old board is! Lol... Even Sam is here. Most of us have had good results. Now, if you're asking why it's taking a year to spread to other sites, it's a reason you may not want to hear -controlled content! I won't go into that, though, because I'm sure I look like I'm crzy when I do!

Yep....I always thought the other forums were somewhat crooked but I had no idea things were truly as bad as they are. LLLT should have spread to every forum by now and should be the most talked about topic. Just goes to show you how bad those boards really are. I've lost a lot of respect for all of them.

[goten574]

Say someone with MPB purchases a good, known to be effective laser helmet... what is the success rate? 30% chance person will reverse his MPB? 40%? 70%? ....

[N0rwgnKid]

That video reminds me of one of those youtube "charge a battery with a plastic knife and lemon juice", or "how to make an atomic bomb with silver paper and baking powder" videos... its just so.. amatuerish, lol !

[hapyman]

Say someone with MPB purchases a good, known to be effective laser helmet... what is the success rate? 30% chance person will reverse his MPB? 40%? 70%? ....

The major long term study (1 year), that is posted on OMGs site, states a 90% success rate after 12 months. That is halting hairloss and some regrowth. Also Dr. Maricle suggests that the other 10% were non-compliant with the treatments.

[LaserKid]

Say someone with MPB purchases a good, known to be effective laser helmet... what is the success rate? 30% chance person will reverse his MPB? 40%? 70%? ....

The major long term study (1 year), that is posted on OMGs site, states a 90% success rate after 12 months. That is halting hairloss and some regrowth. Also Dr. Maricle suggests that the other 10% were non-compliant with the treatments.

I was wondering why the success rate was not 100%. It should be in theory, if the proposed mechanism works at a sub-cellular level, as we all have mitochondria. I remember someone quoting the Dr. in question saying that he doesn't believe in Lasers because they do not have a defined mechanism of action. I'm not sure how a Doctor of Medicine can say this considering the mechanism of action of paracetamol/acetaminophen has only recently be found out, yet it was used for years without question of it's efficacy.

I have 100% faith in lasers, even though I am not currently using one. I've read the research presented by you guys and the argument for the use of lasers completely outweighs the 'evidence' provided in this video. For a start he is comparing passing laser light through a fingertip to that on the scalp. Everyone knows that the epidermis of the fingers is much thicker than that of the scalp, as it needs to deal with daily abrasions, whereas the scalp has a thinner epidermis because it is shielded by the hair.

Leading on from this, I'm wondering whether it would be useful to increase the time that lasers are in contact with the skin on areas of the scalp that are completely bald. For example, my temples are near enough slick, but for a peach fuzz effect. I'm wondering that when you lose your hair on area of skin does the morphology of that skin change (i.e. does it thicken?) to deal with the exposure it has to environmental pollutants, sunlight etc? If so, it could be that the laser light is not penetrating as adequately and thus not achieving the adequate Joules to promote regrowth. Maybe increasing the time, only for the completely bald areas, may help regrowth in those areas. Anyone know if there is any truth behind what I am proposing?

[hapyman]

Leading on from this, I'm wondering whether it would be useful to increase the time that lasers are in contact with the skin on areas of the scalp that are completely bald. For example, my temples are near enough slick, but for a peach fuzz effect. I'm wondering that when you lose your hair on area of skin does the morphology of that skin change (i.e. does it thicken?) to deal with the exposure it has to environmental pollutants, sunlight etc? If so, it could be that the laser light is not penetrating as adequately and thus not achieving the adequate Joules to promote regrowth. Maybe increasing the time, only for the completely bald areas, may help regrowth in those areas. Anyone know if there is any truth behind what I am proposing?

Just recently, before everyone switched from RG to HLF, we had been discussing this. I have seen it stated in numerous places that the state of the tissue will affect the penetration and efficacy of lasers. For example fibrotic tissue may INITIALLY require a higher dose to break down some of the fibrosis and kick start the healing process. The problem is that there is no established protocol for this within the medical community. There are suggestions but no tried and true methods. A hypothetical protocol would be to do longer (or more frequent) exposures for the first week or two and then taper it down. I think more frequently would be better as I have been messing around with this recently. Something like treating 4 days in a row and then taking a break for 3 days. After 1 or 2 weeks of this though I would lower the treatment times or go back to the 3 days x 20 minutes.