LASER RESULTS [PICTURES!]... all done with the Sunetics G and AiXiZ 5mW diodes!

[OverMachoGrande]

We are absolutely lucky because not only do we have Dr. Maricle here to answer questions directly, but he's starting to get addicted to forums and actually wants to start posting the information that he has regarding the efficacy of LLLT done with his Sunetics G and AiXiZ diodes -yep, those same 5mW diodes that we are so familiar with!

Here is the first installment, and you know all you people out there that look at pictures and say "Well... we don't know anything about them". Well... not only do we know that these people used NOTHING except for laser therapy, we know someone that was involved with these studies... Dr. Maricle himself!!!



I have more, and I'm going to post them soon.

[OverMachoGrande]

That was obviously the men, and here are the women...



So, for those of you that don't know this yet, there *is* something to this "laser thing", to put it mildly! Any 'doctor' out there that touts "I've never seen one convincing set of LLLT before/after photos"... well, this speaks for itself I think!

-O.M.G.

[Chargers 21]

Hey OMG,

I just sent you an email... wondering about building a helmet but you haven't been getting back at me.

-Thanks

[OverMachoGrande]

Hey OMG,

I just sent you an email... wondering about building a helmet but you haven't been getting back at me.

-Thanks

I just answered! Yes... frankly this mess with the old forum has personally hurt me enough that I've been a vegetable and I've let my email slide. While that sounds like the great makings of a lawsuit, the fact is I haven't been able to respond to poeple like I should. So, try not to hold it against me, and I'm down from 328 today to 162 for tomorrow!

-O.M.G.

[Rich_23]

Hey OMG,

Do you know if the Sunetics lasers are also used in the Laser Max brand of devices? I bought the handheld Laser Max for now till I can afford to possibly build one of your helmets. All the lasers in the hand held Laser Max device have lenses. I have read some posts that make it seem that without the lenses over the lasers they seem to do a better job? I am considering taking it apart and removing them but do I really need to do that or should I just leave them the way they are?

Thanks,
Rich

[OverMachoGrande]

Hey, Rich_23!

Yep! They are the same lasers in the LaserMax, too!

Here is the philosophy on removing the lenses: When you do that, they'll "diffuse" (that's my term I use, and Dr. Maricle hates it), and they'll cover a greater area:

Diffused (with the lens cap completely removed) vs. Undiffused (with the lens cap on):

vs.

Lasers are really hard to take pictures of... there isn't that much of a difference in color between the outer rectangular rim of the diffused rectangle compared to the center -it's just the camera is sort of "overloaded" with all of that brightness. So, what you are seeing is that when it's diffused, it spreads out and covers a lot larger, rectangular area. I'm probably going to redo this graphic with my HD camcorder at some point because you'll really see what I mean and the colors won't wash out as much.

Now, the problem with this is that when they spread out like that, the power level on the skin DOES decrease rapidly. The bigger the footprint, the less the average energy per square centimenter! We've calculated that it takes about 20 minutes under a diffused diode at the height of a brush bristle to get into the "window of energy" you need for results, but if you were to move it back FURTHER than a brush bristle, you'd need to do it a lot longer to get the same results. The opposite is true, too... if you moved it CLOSER than the distance of a brush bristle, you would need LESS exposure time.

Ok, when the laser diode still has the cap on... it still loses power when it's pulled away, but it's not quite as radical as it is without the cap (diffused). Ok, lol... the whole entire point of this is to say that no, with a LaserMax, you SHOULDN'T remove the lens caps.

The reason is illustrated in this picture, which shows the coverage of a lasermax:



As you see, there is a great variance of distance from where the diodes hit the scalp. Therefore, you don't want to remove the lens caps because not only would the energy level vary widely, some of those areas wouldn't be getting significant energy at all! The diodes would be spread out TOO MUCH in areas. In this scenario -when the device doesn't contour to the head- you actually WANT the lens caps on so you won't lose as much power over the varying distances.

The benefit of a helmet is that the diodes are going to be a fixed distance of a brush bristle all the way around, therefore even energy levels on the scalp, and therefore you can used diffused diodes. The advantage is that we are able to cover a larger, tighter footprint because the laser surface area on the scalp is better. I personally feel that the more actual contact on the skin (meaning the more skin that is irradiated with red laser light vs. the darker areas), the better, which is one reason -along with the "even energy lever"- why the helmets are so successful. Also, the lens caps actually takes away about a mW and a half from the output of the power, so we get around that issue, too.

These lasers OBVIOUSLY work with the lens caps on, too, but I just wanted to explain why you shouldn't remove them in a LaserMax, the proper scenario where you SHOULD, and what I feel the benefits are for using diffused vs. undiffused.

I hope that helps!

-O.M.G.

[nidhogge]

It's great to finally have these pictures posted, thanks OMG!

[Tberk]

I have been doing some research on the lasers. Thanks for the pics. I hear this Lasermax is really good, anyone know how much it is and where I can buy it? I like the helmet laser also but I am afraid of it because it is a home made device. Is the Lasermax and the Messiah laser FDA approved? Are they seeking approval? I know there a lot of things like Vitamins that are not approved by the FDA but a laser is something else. It may grow hair but what worries me is that it may grow other things like tumors,etc.. That brings me to my next question, site effects?? Headaches? Burns? How mcuh do these lasers cost? Please help!!! Trent

[OverMachoGrande]

I have been doing some research on the lasers. Thanks for the pics. I hear this Lasermax is really good, anyone know how much it is and where I can buy it? I like the helmet laser also but I am afraid of it because it is a home made device. Is the Lasermax and the Messiah laser FDA approved? Are they seeking approval? I know there a lot of things like Vitamins that are not approved by the FDA but a laser is something else. It may grow hair but what worries me is that it may grow other things like tumors,etc.. That brings me to my next question, site effects?? Headaches? Burns? How mcuh do these lasers cost? Please help!!! Trent

Here is your answer about the side effects:

"Question: Is LLLT safe? Can it cause cancer? What about eye safety?? -Answered!"

"LLLT Safety Part II - Addressing EMF fields!"

Both *would be* cleared for safety with the FDA as Dr. Maricle would tell you because the technology is proven 100% safe -all the time- and the laser messiah will be at some point in the near future. "FDA Approved" on the other hand would be down the road -if ever- but it's pretty inconsequential because it has the greatest success rate of any treatment in the forums in such a short period of time that I (and most) have ever seen -period.

I really don't want to talk about a direct comparison of the those products in this thread, though (although someone else can), but there are many people that have used both. I'm going to TRY to steer the conversation back to the talk about the PICTURES! lol... People used to ask for those from Dr. Maricle all the time, and I'll have more to put up soon!

-O.M.G.

[Tberk]

Thanks so much for that information. Seems as though both lasers are similar but one goes closer/touches to your head. Does it make that much of a difference in results?
Can someone tell me the price points on both and some comparisons please? I also did some safety reasearch and there isn't nay negaive info but then again this technology is new, right?
How long have these lasers been tested for hairloss? Also, I saw the hairmax on the main page and they are selling it at amazon and its out of stock! So people are buying it. I have not heard good things about that brush either. Plus it's expensive... Price points please

[Tberk]

Hey-OverMachoGrande-did you get your name from the movie airplane...Classic, that is really funny-LOL

[OverMachoGrande]

Hey, Tberk! YES I DID! lol... But lasers aren't new... lasers for hair loss PREDATE the brand name Propecia! The hairmax laser comb simply screwed up everyone's perception of what "laser therapy" really was, and unfortunately the few people that figured this out that posted in the forums years ago never stuck around and spread the word. That was done by most of us that just became part of the community here. You are more than welcome to check out my website, http://www.overmachogrande.com. It'll take you about two weeks to read! lol...

Ok, now let me post some more pictures from the Sunetics device with AiXiZ 5mW diodes:



This was actually done by the doctor who gave me my transplant 7 years ago! I do know that he left MHR since then and added a laser clinic with Sunetics devices. Little did he know what sort of a future laser PUNK walked through his doors back then.

Once again, though... no minox, no propecia, no other treatments, and Dr. Maricle has "vision" over this case.

-O.M.G.

[hapyman]

You realize the lasermax devices are made in someone's garage right? It looks more professional because it is all in a black enclosure but this has downsides. You actually WANT the lasers to be the same distance from your scalp, which is why a design like OMGs is better. Also with OMGs design you can use diffuse lasers which will help increase the treatment area. OMGs design may look "homemade" but it is by far the most functional device for the money. Per laser it is the cheapest out there.

[skittles_sour]

genhairmedical.com

anyone care to explain the second photograph listed under the 'hair transplants' in their gallery ?

whos fibbing?

[OverMachoGrande]

That's actually a damn good find! You contacted Dr. Marko about it already, right? What was his answer? I'm serious, dude... you certainly don't need to wait for us to crucify people over potential deception, errors, etc!

I'll ask Dr. Maricle about it, too.

[jdp710]

lol, how funny.


skittles_sour,

Do you realize that that hair transplant site (genhairmedical.com) doubles as a LLLT clinic? That's nothing new. A lot of them do.

Not only that, Dr. Bruce Marko is shown next to a Sunetics machine on his website.

Anyone want to guess which company Dr. Maricle is/was the President of?

Anyone want to guess how old the pictures on this thread are?

[OverMachoGrande]

Thank you, Jdp! Clearly the before and after pics are grouped together under the same title on that site, whether they were transplant or laser therapy. They need to clear that up on their site, and that's the only issue here. This was a seperate submission from the other before/after pictures. Obviously the captions put on the full picture -which I took from a pdf that anyone can get- were done by Dr. Marko (the transplant sugeon/laser clinic owner) have the explanation of the picture.



Case closed, and I'm still going to talk to Maricle about it. If someone want to send an email to Marko, by all means do it.

Touting my lasers...
-O.M.G.

[Awaiting Regrowth]

I HOPE we aren't pinning our LLLT on this guy! Not only does HE say that lasers aren't a 'miracle cure' but he does the WORST transplants I have seen on the web. One of which features above as a male with LLLT results after 6 months!

http://marko.sitewizard.biz/patientphot ... ategoryID=


My fear grows!

[Awaiting Regrowth]

Hey, Tberk! YES I DID! lol... But lasers aren't new... lasers for hair loss PREDATE the brand name Propecia! The hairmax laser comb simply screwed up everyone's perception of what "laser therapy" really was, and unfortunately the few people that figured this out that posted in the forums years ago never stuck around and spread the word. That was done by most of us that just became part of the community here. You are more than welcome to check out my website, http://www.overmachogrande.com. It'll take you about two weeks to read! lol...

Ok, now let me post some more pictures from the Sunetics device with AiXiZ 5mW diodes:



This was actually done by the doctor who gave me my transplant 7 years ago! I do know that he left MHR since then and added a laser clinic with Sunetics devices. Little did he know what sort of a future laser PUNK walked through his doors back then.

Once again, though... no minox, no propecia, no other treatments, and Dr. Maricle has "vision" over this case.

-O.M.G.

THIS GUY HAS HAD A HAIR TRANSPLANT!!!

http://marko.sitewizard.biz/patientphot ... ategoryID=


Absolute %&$!.

[jdp710]

I absolutely hate making posts on pictures but what are you looking at?

Where is his hair transplant?

If he had a hair transplant where is the new hair? Why didn't he fill in his temples?

What I see is A LOT longer and healthier hair. I don't see very many new hairs showing up in his temples?

[jdp710]

Here's a picture of what I'm talking about that should help ...




Again, I don't see any new hairs. All I see is longer and healthier hair.

[OverMachoGrande]

By the way, I said the "nice find" comment before I was aware of the slander effort against Dr. Maricle at Regrowth. I just wanted to clear the record and distance myself from the clear downward spiral of the site that WAS made great by actual, hard-working contributors.

Any post that any contributor makes over ther now is simply just the potential for that greedy site owner to just get more traffic -which in turn is going to help him get more advertising revenue -which of course means more unethical influence from those advertisers. When the people that made any civilization, city, or even online forum great are no longer there, that place ceases to stay "great". The posts from the last couple of weeks reflect that.

Touting my lasers with "geurilla marketing tactics",
-O.M.G.

[skittles_sour]

the before and after photographs in the laser photos at the top of this page are different to the ones on the genhair website. so the ones you compare jdp are completly different heads of hair.

your line of thinking that in anyway my post will contribute to regrowth.com is kind of worrying.. the thought process your going through.. you know?

its such a shame OMG, at the heart of it your a great guy. like i told you before. rise above things. this drama with regrowth is a nonsense. even if your in the right or gee.. whatever.. both parties didnt exactly come out very good.

i really hope you can provide the photographic evidence that will convince people. but for now, as someone who was considering upgrading my 28 diode brush to something you guys say WILL be powerful enough to give results.. i just cant blow so much money on something that remains unproven..

and if this doctor is misleading everyone.. which to be honest, i dont know if it definetly is.. its another set back for your laser campaign, and id be really angry about if i was in your position.

[OverMachoGrande]

skittles_sour...

If the positive testimonials coupled with all of the other evidence doesn't convince you, then it doesn't convince you. As far as the "laser campaign" talk, I'm not quite as, umm... upset/angry about that as you may think -that misses the entire point of all of this, and all of the self-reliance that makes our community great. Not one person of the, what... getting close to 70 or 80 people on that thread -including me- CARE about this in terms for a "setback for the laser campagin". lol... Nor do the hundreds that don't post on forums. I don't know how to say this, but it's just "not applicable". We aren't trying to convince YOU ("you" in the general sense), we're trying to make it so people can find about this on their own.

Once again... I support people learning things for themselves vs. having to be spoonfed info. That's the "long and short of it"! I'm not being rude, but it just doesn't matter whether or not you update your 28 diode device to us... we've made more evidence/proof/studies/testimonials than maybe any more treatment available for anyone to find, and if you don't take advantage of it... then ok.

-O.M.G.

[TheFunkyStumpfighter]

This is clearly a joke, and a sad one at that.

Am I the only one that gets a little insulted every time someone comes out of the woodwork and says things like:

but for now, as someone who was considering upgrading my 28 diode brush to something you guys say WILL be powerful enough to give results.. i just cant blow so much money on something that remains unproven

Or things like:

its another set back for your laser campaign,

From what I can tell, there are dozens and dozens and dozens of us using these laser devices (real ones, not some brush), are you calling us all idiots? Thousands of dollars spent, results seen, and you reduce every individual to lowly henchmen in "OMG's laser campaign"? So you, with your infinite knowledge gained through use of your 28 diode laser brush, have the grounds on which to call us all liars, and that laser results are "unproven"? Youre not human, your some online persona trying to stir the pot with a spoon made of ice, so you figure you better stir it hard while you can.

The fact that this is all happening conveniently after the Regrowth fallout is sad, some people must really figure that others have %&$! for brains. Someone, somewhere, figures that an attack on Dr. Maricle is synonymous with an attack on OMG, and that attacking either would cause damage to the notion of lasers for hair loss, as if the it wouldnt continue to snowball regardless of its figureheads. Something tells me that if OMG was offering free plans on an electroshock device that effectively regrew hair, people would be here calling Tesla an scam artist.

[OverMachoGrande]

Something tells me that if OMG was offering free plans on an electroshock device that effectively regrew hair, people would be here calling Tesla an scam artist.

DUDE! I so want to do that, actually! You are "psychic man"! lol... When I spell out the bulletpoints of what changes I'm proposing for the new site, that comes up as an example. I took this from an email that I wrote:

"Who knows if $10 electotherapy devices work?! NONE OF US, that's for sure. Yeah, they may be junk -and the consensus is that they are, but this is the same "consensus" that confused laser brushes with real LLLT devices that have provided us with the best results most of us have ever gotten. The point is... not enough of us have tried a device like this to hammer out protocols enough so everyone can be on the same page and assess whether this is junk or might possibly have merit. That's obviously just one example out of many, though, but the point is... are we going to rely on one person to set up a webpage and get the word out that this -or another treatment- is viable? NO... we need to set that up AT THIS SITE. We need to have user updateable pages on every treatment -no matter how obscure- so we never lose a detail, we never have to have the same exact conversation twice, and we can test them for OURSELVES and not rely on outsiders that potentially don't have our best interests in mind."

So, yeah... that statement is actually pretty accurate to what we are talking about, too. If you read it, shows that there is never a "campaign for lasers" or whatever from us, there is a "campaign to stop or hair loss". That's a huge difference. By god... we're the ones to do it, too. We've already gotten closer than most, and we've only nailed ONE treatment out of possibly many!

I'm excited about the new site, by the way... it's something that should have happened a long time ago. The hard part -and the reason why it hasn't been done before- is already DONE... we've got the contributors that are actually trying to make a proactive difference (and the unexpected benefit of a brand new "common enemy" -that actually has a FACE! lol...).

Word up, suckas.

-O.M.G.

[jdp710]

skittles_sour,

Call up Dr. Maricle and Dr. Marko and ask for their explanation if you believe someone is being dishonest. I'm serious. Come back and let us know.

Here are their phone numbers ...


Chuck Maricle

Main (702) 991-2067
USA FAX (702) 974-0713
USA / Canada Toll Free (888) 424-9491
Northern Europe (London) 020.7993.2961
Central Europe (Paris) 017-281-3002
Southern Europe (Milan) (29) 1616320
Mexico (Central America) 52 55 8525 9138
Australia (Sydney) 2 8014 4908



Bruce Marko, M.D.

Office: (704) 295-9099

[skittles_sour]

stumpfighter.

its exactly that kind of reaction, that does the image of lasers no good.

right now my perception of the laser community is a minority of users who have become so disenchanted and almost warped by years of hairloss, that their judgement is impaired. the initial statements over on regrowth were so inflated and over-exaggerated, and the defence of the concept, was akin to an SS officer testifying why the third-reich is the only way forward.

sure. ive read quite a few of the articles on OMGs page, ive trawled through all the collations that jdp has kindly made on here and on regrowth.com. i want to believe this works.. as propecia+minoxidil dont work for me! i need something else! so ive done my research.

look. when someone sets out to regrow lost hair, and blows alot of money at it, then what their after is regrowth that people can actually see with the naked eye, and identify as being improved. theres been such silly arguements about the quality of modern digital photographs and how they cant show the regrowth. again.. this doesnt help.

ive seen no demonstrations of photographic evidence, that could suggest that there has been a reasonable amount of regrowth for anyone and that it can be attributed only to lasers. if you guys ARE having regrowth, for the love of god, get a better camera, or some of you start taking photographs. LAZERFISHs photographs on his website, include someone who used propecia, and there are lots of photographs showing great regrowth for SOME on things like minoxidil and propecia.

jdp. thanks awfully for letting me know your serious.

i will not be contacting anybody regarding the authenticity of the photographs. but im sure someone already has. and it'll be interesting to see what happens with that.

the reason being is we've already been mislead in some way with the photographs, even if part of this regrowth was made by lasers, as the before/after photos are not consistent. and one minute their sunetic photos, the next dr.marko.

and to be honest, what with the way the hairloss industry is, for example the absolutely shocking statements made by another doctor, the creator of a stem cell treatment on this forum, i know enough to distrust these photos, and i by no means want to start getting into a fight with a doctor.

if you want evidence of how dilusional some can get and how desperate they are for something to work, just look at stem cell thread in the experimental section.

[TheFunkyStumpfighter]

Responses such as my own? You mean my perfectly reasonable response, considering the drivel I was responding to?

If you have a clearly flawed, wildly presumptuous, and almost wholly baseless perception of laser users, then that is your own fault. By the sound of it, youve put a lot of thought into this misconception; thought you could have been using to obtain a more correct one. Instead, you choose to come here and passively insult the people you have a clear and dramatic misconception of by calling us deluded old men whos minds have been warped by years of hair loss. Well, if thats the cause of our mental issues, Id hate to find out the source of yours.

As for all this talk of "furthering the laser cause", well thats just silly. Do you really think anybody cares whether or not you use lasers? The only person I have to prove anything to is the one that stares back at me in the mirror. Youre posting under the convenient pretense that the goal of people who use lasers is to spread the Gospel of the Holy Diode, and anyone with two eyes to read and enough grey matter behind those eyes to comprehend what theyre seeing, could see that thats not even remotely the case. In fact, outward appearances would dictate that people who use lasers seem to resent that outlook more than anyone, so I dont understand how anyone could reach that conclusion.

You want your proof so badly, then why dont you go out and buy us all HD cameras? If the dozens of studies, testimonials, and pictures arent enough for you, Id be happy to receive a free camera to document my progress. I have no interest in spending money on an HD camera so that random people on a forum can feel more secure in their decisions. If you dont want to take the risk on it, then youre free not to, but lets not act like its my responsibility to convince you otherwise, especially considering youve put more than enough effort into you misconceptions to form one with actual substance.

I digress, though. The fact that something like this happens here and over on Regrowth just after the falling out over there isnt coincidence. This really isnt even my fight, I just get insulted when someone like skittles here decides to insult everyone who uses lasers (and me, by proxy), while trying to make some kind of point, as if attacking Dr Miracle and OMG would be like attacking the head on the laser Voltron.

[OverMachoGrande]

The problem isn't with the "laser community", Skittles Sour. It never has been. The problem is with a "blind religion" mentality from others that are trying to lump us all together as a certain type of people, just blatantly IGNORE what 70-80 people are saying -most of them forum veterans, ignore more evidence than anyone could ever need, and criticize us with baseless charges coupled with personal insults. Then, when we defend it, launch into us saying that we just "can't take criticism" or "jeez look at the laser people now" or some nonsense. That's what I refer to as "blind religion"... not seeing what is right in front of them at all costs, but relying on some blind faith that what we are saying MUST be wrong, contrary to the astounding amount of evidence around them, contrary to the fact that personally we are all very helpful, hard-working, honest people with a proven track record of that, and holding onto points/notions that simply aren't valid or backed up.

What *we* are doing, on the other hand, is being independent, proactive thinkers/doers that have come to the same OVERWHELMING conclusions. There is nothing more to say on the difference between the "two groups" -and there shouldn't be "two groups" in the first place. We should ALL be independent thinkers/doers if we care about hair loss.

Look, we just DON'T CARE what you think. Either way... you could be chomping at the bit to do this, you could think that lasers are junk -it doesn't matter to us. You are speaking to people THAT KNOW IT WORKS, and from our own independent experiences. Because of that, we see the people with "blind religion" and it SHOCKS US, mainly because it easily could have been US that was saying those things -we just had that one spark of difference to decide to test this out. We now see the forum world with a much different -and a much more ACCURATE- view, which can be essentially a showplace for the worst traits of humanity. We're trying to change that -most every single one of us. I think your problem (other than just flat-out refusing to see evidence) is that you've seen the "end result" after more than a year all of this, which is us continually pushing for a place that's free from unethical control, and are adamant about exposing people that are engaged in either fraud or deceit- purposeful or not- and you are confusing us with having some sort of end game with lasers. Like I said, that misses the point completely. We'll help you when you want it, we won't if you don't, but if you come here saying things about us that are NOT accurate, we're going to confront you on it. Even you are just skimming right over the statements about how we are trying to stop "hair loss" verses "promote lasers". You're choosing to only see things that fit your premeditated view of us, and you don't seem like you really want to learn anything new about this/us. That's a fact... that's not me twisting anything.

Like I said, though... it really doesn't matter. I hope you're not going to keep drawing this out, telling us all of our flaws that are based on a false pretense anyway -I prove that quite a bit with most posts I make, and have already in the points you've ignored. We don't need that here... we've got that in enough places. You're not being a contributor at all here, and you are simply insulting us without realizing that you are completely missing the greater point of what we stand for -and lasers were just one tool of hopefully many. You sound like a smart guy, but you are proving you don't know what you're talking about here about us.

So, why don't you START to be a contributor here and not just throw rocks at big buildings. If you have such a keen eye to start with showing us our faults, then you should be able to spot your own. What theFunkyStumpfighter is saying has been right on the money with what is going on. So, learn from it.

I'm sorry, but if you want to keep this going, this is all I'm going to say to you because, just like the others that I talked about before with "blind religion", it doesn't serve any purpose at all for me to start this "circle game" filled with thinly veiled attacks about our personalities when we back up everything we say with concrete statements -and whatever insults that come our way are never valid. All the facts are there -you may keep missing them, but the record speaks for itself -both about us personally, and about, yes... lasers. Yeah, lasers work and are the real deal. So are we. The "laser community" with our "laser agenda" are the most helpful, independent thinking people on forums in the history of forums, and we are also the people that have had the most success at stopping hair loss. The "laser community" would also be the FIRST to abandon lasers if something was found to work better... we are doing it for our hair, not because we have blind faith or some baseless agenda.

I hate having to wake up in the morning and re-type this AGAIN in another place, just because people have pre-meditated views about us and won't allow themselves to see for a second what the true problem is. This isn't a our side/your side argument... it's a right versus wrong argument. Jeez... what a crappy way to start the day even before you've had your first cup of coffee.

Just for the record, and I'm not being rude, but it's spelled out in plain english on my page why a 28 diode brush won't work, and it's spelled out what does -and there is both scientific evidence, studies, and positive testimonials that make it so what I say "checks out". The onus is NOT on us to do anything else, and we are going to defend ourselves from personal insults. If you don't want to listen, then fine. But don't keep pushing an invalid criticism on us, especially in a thread that shows not only undeniable proof of the efficacy of lasers, but one that spells out our true helpful nature, our spirit of innovation, our desire to eliminate "blind religion" from hair loss forums, and our dedication to what everyone's focus should be -stopping hair loss. Being proactive in solving hair loss -something *we* have done- is actually a very RARE thing in a hair loss forum. I find that extremely curious and suspect -which is why we're doing something about it.

Anyway, don't take anything I've said personally, just learn from it and go forward. Don't be a part of the "wrong side" of this, because there is a "wrong side"... and it has nothing to do with "lasers".

-O.M.G.

[Awaiting Regrowth]

I absolutely hate making posts on pictures but what are you looking at?

Where is his hair transplant?

If he had a hair transplant where is the new hair? Why didn't he fill in his temples?

What I see is A LOT longer and healthier hair. I don't see very many new hairs showing up in his temples?

Sorry JDP but you are wrong. The photo you have used is that of a transplant. If you look at the link below it clearly states TRANSPLANT CLIENT.

http://marko.sitewizard.biz/patientphot ... ategoryID=


I am not saying that lasers do not work, just that this is NOT the work of lasers, and I have seen NO good evidence that lasers work from both the Regrowth and this website. This is not a personal attack, just want people to be clear that as this doctor states; 'LLLT is NOT a miracle cure'.

[OverMachoGrande]

Actually, Awaiting Regrowth...

You're the one that's probably wrong -which we'll know soon enough- and I'll explain....

Listen up, everyone... I just got off of the phone with Dr. Maricle, and he ADAMANTLY explained that this one particular set of before/after pictures from Dr. Marko were presented to him as ONLY LLLT, with NO TRANSPLANT. They had conversations about it at the time this set of pictures was taken, etc. As I stated earlier, it's more than likely Dr. Marko has simply grouped together all of his before after pictures in one spot on his webpage.

To further clear up this issue, he is going to call Dr. Marko TODAY to get his explanation, so this will be the end of it. Anyone still questioning the findings -whatever they may be- can call either one of the doctors at the aforementioned numbers to clear it up themselves vs. simply talking about it.

If it turns out the Dr. Marko submitted to us something that other that what we were led to believe, I'm going to edit that picture up above with big red writing right across it that reflects that -instead of removing it, so we all can be reminded of it. If it turns out that it's accurate and indeed *is* LLLT ONLY -like it was presented and discussed about- then I'm going to write "This picture has been verified by both doctors as being the results of LLLT ONLY, without a transplant. Please call the doctors if you wish to discuss this further because the CASE IS CLOSED".

Now... why am *I* the one that had to pick up the phone to call? Because it's about lasers? No... because I, JDP, and a few others that just RANDOMLY (...not!) happen to be a part of the "laser community" are apparently the only ones that know how to be even REMOTELY PROACTIVE vs. sitting around and talking about something we don't know anything about like this is a f*cking hair salon. How can that be good enough for some of you?! F*ckin' a... you get one shot at life! Take advantage of it! [Settle down, OMG, settle down. lol... And yes, I'm hamming it up a bit.]

The people slandering Dr. Maricle at the other site are pieces of %&$!, by the way. That's not debatable, and it's no secret what is going on over there. Once again... this isn't "us vs. them", it's "right vs. wrong", and it has NOTHING to do with lasers. I hope all of you see that.

Now, I'm going to actually pick up that cup of coffee I've been dreaming about all morning. Look at that... no one even has to hand it to me.

Oh, but back to you, Awaiting Regrowth... if you say that those pictures up top show "NO good evidence", and you couple that with the fact that you are apparently ignoring all of the positive testimonials... why the hell are you on a forum? Simple question. It doesn't compute. Science, pictures, proof, and most importantly more users than you can count that have had great experiences with it... yet you say "no good evidence". I'm sorry... but I find that suspect. I feel once again that's venturing into the "blind religion that lasers don't work", when they CLEARLY DO. Don't you think that says something extremely negative about you? At the least, you're insulting like 70 people saying "I don't care what you say", not to mention that you are just ignoring FANTASTIC evidence right here in this thread.

Why are you here if your not here to listen to what others have said?

*I'd* certainly be listening.

-O.M.G.

[Awaiting Regrowth]

OMG

I'm not about to declare my allegiance to the 'laser society' for a number of reasons;

1) There is not enough evidence - scientific or on forums.

Oh no, sorry only one.

Photos like the ones above can be seen also if I type into google;

Provillus, Procerin, minoxidil, propecia, amazing regrowth, my mum's formula and breakthrough shampoo.....as you well know

I have the adequate equipment and will soon let people know if I have any results positive or negative, but they will be documented in a fashion that I believe to be accurate and they will be MY results.

Regards

[OverMachoGrande]

"Laser society"? lol... you're joking right? That whole reason I was bringing that up was in jest... there is no such thing. I don't know you well enough to know if you're kidding.

However, joking or not, our definitions of "enough evidence" are clearly at odds, and the, umm... "laser society" has the numbers to back it up. There isn't anything out there that DOESN'T show that lasers grow hair.

Just a small point here... you've given us no reason to pay attention to "your results" versus anything else out there -with or without professional hair count numbers, etc. You're discounting all of us -and plenty of evidence- but I have the feeling you are going to expect US to treat YOUR INFO with a standard that you don't afford to others -whether it be just our layman's testimonies or the overwhelming hardcore clinical evidence. That's not how it works in anyone's mind but Dr. Feller.

Plus, let's be honest here... you've pretty much already exposed your biases. You were fighting that there was no way a set of pictures done with lasers could actually be done with those lasers -so you have a bias going into this- and yet you are going to post unbiased results? ...after you've discounted all of OUR results and the clinical data? That doesn't add up to anything I could take seriously -whether good or bad about lasers. I'm sorry that I feel that way, but all of that is something that I can't get past.

Anyway, good luck with your hair loss. I do mean that.

Oh, and if the picture does turn out to be completely LLLT without a transplant, I expect you to acknowledge that and completely retract your "this is NOT the work of lasers" statment, just exactly like Dr. Maricle, Dr. Marco, and myself will acknowledge it if it turns out the other way. That's what good people do when they say something in error, and I'm sure you know that for anyone to retain any sort of credibility, you have to be held accountable for your statements and make amends for them if they are erroneous. If not... we remember.

-O.M.G.

[skittles_sour]

well i obviously cant reason with you stump. i only read the first couple of sentences.

youve just completely demonstrated again what i was talking about in the defence of lasers.

as im very open minded, its so intrigueing to see people be SO very turned on by this, and so defensive. its very admirable, and it does make me think i might be missing out on something. like i said before, i want lasers to work, as i have from the beginning.

its so very reasonable to call this a laser campaign, and labels like society etc, as OMG and others have devoted so much time to persuade people and give them facts, and the defense, which is actually just an attack on anyone who isnt persuaded, as the words have been so forceful, its ended up getting nasty.

in doing this, its irritated a lot of users, alienated them as the claims and remarks that have been made public, and particulary in the early days, were just so very over the top. just because someone doesnt believe in something shouldnt mean you give a response that has been given in the past.

steering people away from things that have been PROVEN to work for SOME, of course not all, is just unfair. and this is why i continue to take issue with this.

im scared that some people will be completely turned off by products that have been proven to work, in exchange for products that have yet to prove a credible photograph - and it has been some time now.

i however will not comment on anything to do with lasers, until in my mind, i can see that spending 400-500 dollars on a helmet will bring me something in return, but i hope that others out there remind certain people to not be so outrageous, no matter what goodness they perceive to bring.

[Heath]

Skittles-the helmet laser costs around 400 dollars? IS that premade or a do it yourself thing. I am looking to try one but dont have the time to build my own not would I trust myself to do it right-LOL. My hairloss issue is not bad, just recedeing. I want to stop anymore loss. Would a laser treatemnt be good for me, ya think??

[skittles_sour]

im not the person to ask, but after all the evidence, of course it would be a valuable ingredient in any regime, coupled with other things. if it does regrow hair, it has yet to be proved of any cosmetic benefit.

just dont expect it to 'turn any vellous hair terminal' like it was once claimed, and keep an open mind on all treatments. what works for one, wont work for all.

[Awaiting Regrowth]

Hi OMG

If the websites mentioned have described the pictures in question to be a 'hair transplant' than surely that is not an error on my behalf, just using the information that is available to me to draw people attention to that.

Anyhow, I will keep an eye on this thread and see what the outcome is.

I am however unbias towards all treatments, and I can tell you now that I have tried many that have not necessarily delivered what was advertised.

Just questionable statements and resources are quoted on this site and many are not necessarily objective.

If your regime works for you then all the best.

[OverMachoGrande]

I've been a little "snappy" anyway, so I don't mean to come across as so bitter. Over the past couple of weeks I've had a lot of people sh*t all over the hard work I've done over recent history for the community -and one was even someone I actually considered to be a close "offline" friend. It's amazing what the power of greed has over some people, and I just can't relate to that at all. Everything I've ever done has been under the flag of "consumer advocate" -including recently actually making the helmets for people that can't do it themselves.

I'm very happy that I'm going to be taking this "consumer advocate" role to a more GLOBAL SCALE with the new site that's coming up, and I'm going to help others fulfill that role as well.

I've said it before... there is a lack of heroes in the hair loss industry, if there are any at all. I'm going to do my part to enable it so that paradigm can shift.

The paradigm WILL SHIFT.

[skittles_sour]

great omg. i really do wish you well in that.

as long as you mantain a more balanced outlook to the masses, rose above things, and dont let it get personal, youd be quite a formidable force.

[jdp710]

Wait a second here. Why is OMG being held responsible for someone else's comment of "turn any vellous hair terminal."

If I made a stupid comment about LLLT, is OMG responsible for that too?

What's that about? Why don't you blame the person who made that comment?

Talk about spinning things around, huh?

[Brunz19]

Yessssss, ever since I've seen your name (O.M.G) and what it was 'abbreviating', I've always wondered if you got the name from the movie Airplane! The fact that you did makes everything that much more awesome.

[Tberk]

OVER MACHO GRANDE! I was on your site. Very informative in making a head laser. Where can I get one already made? I looked for a pace on the site to email you but i could not find it, please send me your contact info. Thanks! -Trent

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hey, Tberk! YES I DID! lol... But lasers aren't new... lasers for hair loss PREDATE the brand name Propecia! The hairmax laser comb simply screwed up everyone's perception of what "laser therapy" really was, and unfortunately the few people that figured this out that posted in the forums years ago never stuck around and spread the word. That was done by most of us that just became part of the community here. You are more than welcome to check out my website, http://www.overmachogrande.com. It'll take you about two weeks to read! lol...

[OverMachoGrande]

Yeah! lol... "Airplane II"! I used that as a band name BRIEFLY -more like the name I wrote some songs under if anything- and then I forgot my old name that I used in the forums from 1998-2002 or so (some boring deviation from my real name probably), and when I got back into it in 2004/2005 I just started using "OverMachoGrande"!

What's funny is that I used it for the band name before "OMG" started meaning "Oh my god!", so that was sort of an unintended thing to have "OMG" be a common phrase. I'm glad it didn't mean something bad like "SOL" or something!

What's really funny is now that I'm pretty heavily involved in this, I think more people I talk to on the phone call me "OverMachoGrande" or "OMG" than "John". lol... I can't say that I ever intended to ACTUALLY BECOME "OverMachoGrande", although the beer drinking/cigar smoking image was a part of me already so it wasn't much of a stretch.



-"JOHN" lol...

[skittles_sour]

i dont think i ever directly attributed that to OMG. it was nidogge that pronunced that beauty.

there of course was other things said jdp, alot of people have been guilty of exaggeration over on regrowth, and insulting anyone who isnt yet convinced. it was explained to me before i got banned purely for having an opinion, that free speech wasnt tolerated.

and to be perfectly frank. ive been consistent, but ive also kept an open mind throughout and will continue to do so.

[jdp710]

Why would you even put that comment in this thread if it wasn't about OMG, Dr. Maricle or Dr. Marko. By posting a comment of what nidhogge said in this thread it sure puts a nice spin on things doesn't it? Not to mention you left out the part that nidhogge made the comment, not OMG. The casual reader of this thread would have thought OMG said that. But I'm sure that was your intention anyway.

As for exaggeration of LLLT, again, I have no clue what you're referring to unless you are talking about nidhogge's comment.

And again, as far as your quote about free speech or insulting, etc., what does any of that have to do with this thread and the original question at hand.

The topic was about why Dr. Marko had that guys picture in the hair transplant section ...

If you have a problem with what happened at regrowth start a new thread.

Stop spinning things to try to get your own way!

[Awaiting Regrowth]

LOL.

Skittles if you want to be able to air your opinion about hairloss it is clearly not here! I suggest that you keep doing what you are doing and whenever 'they' try to draw you into a personal argument say no more. It seems like this 'playground' approach to trying to discredit what you are saying will not let up. I for one can't be be bothered to argue with these guys, I'll say what I see, without bias as 'I' truely do want to give joe bloggs the best information available.

I will no longer comment on this particular thread as it has been overwhelmed with 'finger pointing'.

It boils down to this:-

In error or not, photos have been shown and attributed to LLLT. On referring to the website mentioned this was shown NOT to be the case.

End of my input.

Regards

[skittles_sour]

my dear jdp. any sort of inclination that lasers werent as effective as was made out, were pretty much set upon. to deny this is to rewrite what happened day in day out on regrowth for quite a while. there were numerous statements, made by numerous people that shouldnt of been. while alot of extremely valuable contributions have been made, theyve been soured by many comments made over a prolonged period.

comments like nidhogge, who seems to be well respected by many, were left unchecked, and often encouraged. OMG was a moderator on regrowth.

as its plain to see, OMG seems to be the person everyone looks up to. and YOU are making the mistake that i directed that quote to him, as you percieve him as the honcho, as i guess he is.

besides, nidhogge himself is respected just about as highly as OMG, so for him to say that, its pretty poor.

if anyone is spinning anything its you.

to be honest, again i was willing to close this matter off, but you keep at it. i wish youd accept the poor treatment of people on regrowth.com who just decided not to believe in your laser 'mission', and that I, like others just want balance.

[jdp710]

skittles_sour,

If you have a problem with why you were banned at regrowth start a new thread.

[hapyman]

It's pretty easy to see what is going on here to the trained eye. One of you guys definitely seems to have a vendetta against OMG. One who joined for the sole reason for commenting on this thread. One whose all 8 posts are in this same thread for that reason. Hey I understand you are sour about being banned at regrowth and you are an eloquent writer but really what is your purpose here?

The way you lump everyone together over at Regrowth is disheartening. Since your stay was brief I guess I can understand the misinformation but that is not how it was. I understand you may be mad at OMG but like JDP said start another thread about it to express the way you feel. It can be addressed there.