Primordial Performance "HairGen" Update (big one)

[nidhogge]

Well, I just spoke with Eric, the president of Primordial Performance, regarding the future of HairGen. He is going to send out a mass mail to those who have volunteered to be a part of the trial soon as well.

Here are some of the things that we've spoken of thus far--

- The herbs that have been harvested for this formula are raw and wild harvested, and *very* potent. Even without a strong delivery system, Eric has no doubt that the benefits will be realized. He said, referring to the Red Panax Ginseng, that you could take a bite out of it and feel the effects within your body in just a few minutes. This was better than I had even expected!

- The delivery system, a form of liposomal encapsulation with phosphatidylcholine, will still allow the formulation to be alcohol-free. However, the consistency of HairGen will no longer be that of a liquid as a result of this delivery system. Think of it more in terms as a leave-in conditioner post-shower. I was a bit skeptical at first as both Eric and I were shooting for an easy-to-apply, cosmetically appealing leave-in topical that you could wear throughout the day, but after speaking in length with Eric about it, my fears are assuaged for the time being. I'll have a much better idea when I receive a sample in November to test out and (hopefully) approve of pre-trial.

Essentially, you'd shampoo your hair, and when done with your shower, massage the cream into your scalp. You'd let it dry for 10 minutes or so, then towel dry your hair. This is what Eric is shooting for.

- The formulation is still 100% completely natural, right down to the solvents. Eric is looking into lipid-based herbal extraction so that we can avoid alcohol altogether in the process (the current plan was to extract the herbal with alcohol, then filter out the alcohol).

- The release date will be towards the end of November. Yea, I know...you fellas have been mighty patient and Eric even joked about how long this is taking, but his next step is to hire a consultant for his new distiller (what we've been waiting on for a few months, which is now set up...) to exchange knowledge with on lipid-based extraction amongst other things extraction-related. The herbals used were quite costly, and naturally, Eric wants to minimize any waste associated with the production of the product for everyone.

- He also wants to provide a basic shampoo for everyone to use that is all-natural as well. Any suggestions are welcome! The goal is to have everyone on the same page with shampoos, as using something like "Suave" from the store may interfere with results due to all the chemicals and artificial ingredients found in most shampoos. So again...if anyone has any custom shampoos or formulating experience, then drop a line on this thread and we can talk further. Of course, there would be some sort of compensation if your shampoo is used, at the very least free product (I'd make sure of it!). This doesn't mean that the product will be sold, but rather, just given out freely with HairGen to trial users.

** That said, things are looking good and while I was hoping for the promised October release, it looks like late November is more probable. If folks have any questions, feel free to ask, and if people reading this have no idea what I'm talking about, then here is the thread to look at:

http://www.primordialperformance.com/vb ... trial.html

And yep--you can still be a part of the free trial if you wish.

[virtua_]

Hmm, I was thinking of not applying for this as I used A&G and thought that would help me with regrowth, but the results were meagre (a few new hair in the front but nothing in the crown where I really want to regrow).

How could I apply at this late date, still send e-mail as stated to hairgen@primordialperformance.com?

Oh, by the way, would it be a problem that I plan to continue using Scalpure every second day and Zenagen shampoo two times a week while doing this trial?

Thanks for your help nidhogge!

[1.....]

for the shampoo maybe they can use the ingredients that Rye uses in shampoo ignite

[xyion1]

I too am interested in this trial...how do I apply? And, will I need to discontinue my current clay/LLLT setup? I'd imagine the answer is yes.

[nidhogge]

Hey guys--

Actually, if you're using Scalpure, Zenagen, etc. I'd prefer that you continue with your current regimen and not make any changes while on HairGen. So, for instance, if you're using Scalpure now--continue to use it throughout the beginning and end of the trial. Same applies with LLLT or other treatments, especially Minoxidil (the dreaded Minox. shed when you get off of it).

If you want to apply, the link has all the information on the e-mail address to contact (yep, still HairGen@PrimordialPerformance.com), as well as the form to send them, before pictures, etc.

virtus--

Fortunately, the trial is completely free, so the only thing you stand to lose is a few bucks for S&H and the application time. A&G seems to have been a failure, unfortunately. I used it myself, and even used it in conjunction with LLLT...15 minutes of lasering, apply and massage in thoroughly, 5 minutes of LLLT. But, the method of applying is the same, nothing has changed.

[Jacob]

for the shampoo maybe they can use the ingredients that Rye uses in shampoo ignite

Ha..I thought this same company is who Rye was going to use if he ended up selling the stuff..I mean mass producing/selling it

On the shampoo..come on. There are tons of all natural shampoos out there. I can see if you're looking to use specific ingreds not found in any others ..and/or just want another thing to sell(which makes sense)..but they make it sound like everything else out there is toxic There's even that one line you can supposedly drink..at least the owner did so

[jksl]

Can this be used with or on the same days as dermaheal? And what is this 'custom' formulation from Caregen that you're using, nidhogge? And are you still doing group buys?

Also, does anyone know where we can purchase Caregen's hair nutrition pack?

[nidhogge]

Yes, but Rye does not want to give out his formulation like I have to Primordial without compensate, and Primordial doesn't want to compensate him for a formulation that hasn't demonstrated results for trial users. This is why Rye did the formulation for a number of people. What I did was provide them my formulation sheet, and let them take care of the rest. I also supplied ingredients, though most wound up getting tossed since Eric went the route of harvesting their own wild herbs which, while more costly, will yield a more potent extraction.

Eric is looking to provide a shampoo that is, preferably, created in-house. Nothing to necessarily ever *sell* to people, but just something that can guarantee that everybody is on the same page, using the same non-SLS, natural shampoo. Simple as that. It'd be provided at Primordial's expense. It's nicer to provide a free natural shampoo rather than tell everyone to use Aubrey Organics or something.

jskl--

I can't get group buys through Caregen for the time being, but I'll be able to revisit it in the future. This can be used with DermaHeal--since DermaHeal is clear, you'd probably want to put it on first, and then put the HairGen on following it. Or, at two different times in the day.

[Jacob]

Ask the company that sells the Dermaheal..unless it's something that only a doc can sell you.

[nidhogge]

Can't get the same price from them Jacob, and I can't blame them...nobody wants to be undercut, or do a favor for free. But yea, for the actual serum vials, it'd have to be a doc.

[nate]

Nidhogge,

I'm in China right now but quit dutasteride about 8 weeks ago. Does my location make it any harder for me to be part of this trial?

-Nate

[closkeyclan]

Great! I actually sent a note to him yesterday asking about starting time. I just started using my Laser Helmet by OMG. Still just using Nioxin Shampoo only. I am 46 and just started losing the hair 3 years ago. Need other suggestions for topical, vitamins etc... Hoping the new stuff from Primordial will help.

[Anxious1]

if ur 46 and only just started to lose hair, u dont have a problem IMO, and shouldnt be using a helmet, i mean u can if u want but its a bit of overkill. i would just look at having a healthy life, and leave it. its probably not mpb, to be starting that late. u ever done any detoxes?

[Swoosh]

if ur 46 and only just started to lose hair, u dont have a problem IMO, and shouldnt be using a helmet, i mean u can if u want but its a bit of overkill. i would just look at having a healthy life, and leave it. its probably not mpb, to be starting that late. u ever done any detoxes?

I really hope you are joking.

[virtua_]

Nidhogge:

Will we received a reply with whether or not we are accepted into the study? Sent my application in on Sunday (I do realise that they might not have had the time to go through all applications yet)

[nidhogge]

Hey guys--

To answer a few questions...

virtua--

You should receive a reply within a week. Have you provided good-quality pictures as well along with the application? If you have, and don't hear back from them in a week, you can contact me at nidhogge(at)hotmail(dot)com and I'll make sure that everything is a'OK for you.

nate--

Not a problem at all bud. This trial is open to international folks as well as domestic.

closkey--

For vitamin recommendations/supplementation, I recommend ImmortalHair's site at http://www.ImmortalHair.org.

The latest news for trial start is late November, but that will be for those that registered first. Eric wants a number of participants to provide initial feedback on the quality of application, etc. before mass-producing more for the rest of the trial. This just goes back to the point I made early about him wanting to waste as little product as possible in production, since these are not crumby herbs by any means.

Anxious & closkey--

I'd recommend that anyone wear a laser helmet if they want the best quality hair possible, even those not suffering from MPB. It does amazing things for hair quality in the long-term.

[virtua_]

virtua--
You should receive a reply within a week. Have you provided good-quality pictures as well along with the application? If you have, and don't hear back from them in a week, you can contact me at nidhogge(at)hotmail(dot)com and I'll make sure that everything is a'OK for you.

Yup, good pictures of both crown and hairline. Thanks nidhogge, I'll wait a week, and e-mail you if I don't hear back from them!

Really excited about this product, cheers man!

[0416Dr]

I am also interested, but not if they are going to distribute 3 versions of it..0% 2,5% and 5%? Or didnt I understand this? I do not want to get a 0% for sure...testing 6 months for nothing?

[virtua_]

I am also interested, but not if they are going to distribute 3 versions of it..0% 2,5% and 5%? Or didnt I understand this? I do not want to get a 0% for sure...testing 6 months for nothing?

That's only Pueraria Mirifica, they are trying to find the best dosage and effectiveness, all the other ingredients will be intact and in the same dosage in all versions as far as I've understood:

Aloe Vera, Adenosine, Sanguisorba Officinalis Extract, Loquat Leaf Extract (Eriobotrya japonica), Semen Coicis Extract (Coix Seed or Coicis Lachryma-Jobi), Swertia Chirata Extract, Red Panax Ginseng Extract, Sophora Flavescens Extract, Toco-8, Niacinamide

[nidhogge]

Yep, what virtua said (thanks virtua!).

That information is a bit dated though...I wanted 1/3 of the folks to have 0% Pueraria Mirifica, 1/3 to have 1% Pueraria Mirifica, and 1/3 to have 2% PM, but we may not have any variation in product, or it may wind up being half get no PM, and half get 1 or 2%.

I have to discuss this with Eric yet. The PM is simply a black horse, but the real formula is what you get from the other ingredients virtua listed.

[kamisama]

Has this been passed out to the first few testers as scheduled in early nov?

[virtua_]

Nidhogge:

So have you received the formula first? You said that you would receive it in early November and test drive a bit before we testers get it?

[Jacob]

In case Nid missed this over at Regrowth...I'd sill like to know what in Rye's product makes it so much more expensive than something like this.