Anybody stop minox while on LLLT?

[NeverQuit]

History: I've been using a 250 LLLT helmet for 5 months, revivogen after LLLT and 5% minox .5 ml once per day (basically 1/4 dose).

Since no conclusive studies have been out on minox impeding LLLT results, I have only to go on what the general consensus is on these forums. This of course leads me to wanting to try LLLT without minox to see if I could maximize results. Buuuuuut then you go through the worry of a big shed...blah, blah, blah....

So....has anyone here gone off minox while doing LLLT? Did you go cold turkey or slowly off the poison? How much were you using and did you get a shed? Did you see better results after going off it?

I guess for my peace of mind and in a perfect world, I would love to hear. "I was on minox for 5 years. I started LLLT with minimal results, but when I went off minox my hair got so much fuller and thicker."

I'm down to just .5ml once per day. Would this low dose impede LLLT results the same as 1ml twice per day? Perhaps .5ml once per day is so low that technically I'm "off" it anyway and dropping it at this point wouldn't even matter.

Share your thoughts...not just the "you will loose any minox dependent hairs" comments...

Thanks ahead, NQ

[hapyman]

I got off of minox pretty early into LLLT treatment and pretty much went cold turkey. Hindsight I probably would've tapered it down more slowly before dropping it completely. I shed steadily for awhile and am just now starting to recuperate from all that minox crap. Wish I never started to be honest. You shed like hell when you start it and it takes forever for you to recover from that and then you shed again like hell when you stop it. No other treatment out there has caused me to lose so much hair.

My advice would be to slowly taper off your use. Suggesting that you start off stopping Minox on laser days. So that would be like 4 times a week minox 3 LLLT. I would do that for awhile and make sure you are stable. Perhaps a month or two. Then lower that to 2 times per week for another 1 month or 2 and eventually 1 and then none. Hope that makes sense. I think there is some credence to slowly stopping minox vs. cold turkey. But only one way to find out.

[NeverQuit]

So if one were to cut back on Minox to nothing, would you do it daily but cut down on the amount....OR....keep the same amount or cut back on the days.
My thinking was it would be less of a shock to keep a daily routine, just cut back on the dosage.

[hapyman]

That is most definitely an option. I suggest you do whatever you do slow though. Eventually like I laid out above I would eventually start removing days, initially with lasering days. Once again there isn't an established way to do this but since you are already 5 months in you could hope that this would help reduce your shed. Especially if you drag out the reduction of minox over the next 6 months. This is just my opinion though.

[NeverQuit]

The whole this is so f#cking frustrating because I'm normally a good responder to everything.

It's tough to see so many good/great results out there and not be one of them. The question is...is the minox the only thing keeping me from responding?

So as I see it, here are my choices:

1) If I give up minox and that wasn't what was keeping me from responding to LLLT treatment, then I take 3 steps backwards.
2) If I stop minox and that was it, I have to deal with a massive shed.



I know that some people on this forum feel that minox is ruining my hair, however that's a tough argument when your hair gets a lot worse after stopping.

[hapyman]

Have you gotten results from minox?

How would you rate minox's performance out of 10 for you?

It's a tough call and it may depend on your answers above. Otherwise in my opinion, no matter what the outcome was, it was worth it for me to stop the minox. That is something you are going to have to weigh and make a decision on it. I will say since stopping it has been a roller coaster ride for the past 10 months. Things seem stabilized now and some regrowth in the areas where minox ravaged my hairline. The way I see it though you have a distinct advantage though. You have the opportunity to try getting off of it how I wish I had.

Just a bunch of questions that I can think of. Hopefully we can help you get to the bottom of this

5 months and no results?

Any change in hair thickness or texture?

How is your scalp condition since starting?

What is your hair color and skin color?

Protocol? (How many diodes, what design helmet, diffused vs. focused etc)

When do you put minox on in relation to your lllt session?

Thanks.

[NeverQuit]

5 months and no results?
Lost a good .5" on temples and more diffused thinning.

Any change in hair thickness or texture?
What is left is healthier and slightly thicker but not even close to make up for what is lost.

How is your scalp condition since starting?
Much better/used to flake, now zero flaking...zero dandruff

What is your hair color and skin color?
Blonde, white...but tan.

Protocol? (How many diodes, what design helmet, diffused vs. focused etc)
OMG 250 Helmet

When do you put minox on in relation to your lllt session?
Since minox is pretty greasy and I juggle time between dating, work, and working out (all of which I don't like to wear hats for)...there is no set time other than I take it once per day and leave it on at least 3 hours. What I never do is take it right before or after an LLLT session.

[hapyman]

5 months and no results?
Lost a good .5" on temples and more diffused thinning.

Any change in hair thickness or texture?
What is left is healthier and slightly thicker but not even close to make up for what is lost.

How is your scalp condition since starting?
Much better/used to flake, now zero flaking...zero dandruff

What is your hair color and skin color?
Blonde, white...but tan.

Protocol? (How many diodes, what design helmet, diffused vs. focused etc)
OMG 250 Helmet

When do you put minox on in relation to your lllt session?
Since minox is pretty greasy and I juggle time between dating, work, and working out (all of which I don't like to wear hats for)...there is no set time other than I take it once per day and leave it on at least 3 hours. What I never do is take it right before or after an LLLT session.

Judging from your responses it seems like you are starting to respond. I know it is hard to believe but it takes time. I didn't start getting results until about 10 months and I blonde too. Recently over at regrowth we had begun talking about different protocols for blonde users but it never really got anywhere. However, due to my discussions with JDP and looking at various research articles I altered my treatment plan. It is more of a pain but I really think it may be working differently for the better. I started seeing my results around the same time I switched protocols and after I started doing some LBI treatments plus it was after 10 months of normal LLLT treatments, so take this for what it is worth. It is hard for me to tell exactly but I think it may be a combination of both the 10 months and me switching up my protocol because I haven't been religious with the LBI. Anyway my new protocol is 10 minutes 2 days in a row and then a one day break and then repeat. This way I am getting more exposures but without the risk for over stimulation (inhibition). The reason I moved to this is that I felt that the time in between my LLLT sessions were too long. My scalp and hair would be great right after and about 12 hours following but about the time I was ready for another session it felt like I was back to square one. Hope that makes sense. Unfortunately I too have lost ground since starting, some of which I mainly attribute to getting off minox/fin combo but I see signs that it may be starting to fill in. I have terminalized a bunch of hairs on my temples now, some in random places, and a lot of my vellus hairs are getting much longer and showing signs that they may not be far behind.

I guess the question still remains though on whether to drop the minox or not? I guess that is up to you. If you do I would definitely drag it out though. Also you may want to just trial run the same protocol I am doing for LLLT. It is kind of nice and you may feel a difference. Hope this helps.

[NeverQuit]

dude, just got a haircut...and it's not good. Never lost this much hair in a 4 week period in my life. WTF!

[hapyman]

Just read your other post in the Dr. Maricle thread. So you are getting a sunburn feeling right after your lllt session?

If so I am pretty sure from my experience and others that you do not want this. I believe this means that for some reason your scalp is heating up too much. We have speculated what this may mean but we aren't entirely sure.

One theory is that you may be magnesium deficient then. The reasoning behind this is that LLLT creates a lot of ATP, which is the energy molecule for your body. Magnesium helps to stabilize this molecule so without enough of it the ATP is rapidly broken down and energy is wasted and released in the form of excess heat.

Another could be that you are simply going too long during your sessions.

And lastly it could just be radiant heat sent from the laser diodes if your lasers are running too hot.

I suggest you do what I did and just try to drop your treatment times and see what happens. Try to gauge how your scalp feels after. It may take a couple weeks to notice a difference. But really at this point I think you have nothing to lose. Also you may want to get some MagOil. You don't have to put it on your scalp for it to be effective either but you could try that a couple times to if you like. The way I do it is that I spray all over my body about 30 minutes before my pre-lllt shower. This way all the grime left behind by the magoil is rinsed off before my lllt session. Every once in awhile I do spray my scalp with it and it seems to have a nice calming effect. If you try the scalp I wouldn't leave it on more than 5 minutes the first time because it could sting if you have any inflammation.

[jdp710]

And lastly it could just be radiant heat sent from the laser diodes if your lasers are running too hot.

IME, it's probably this unless you are using the focusing lens in your lasers.

1, 2 or 3 burning hot diodes can do this. You can usually tell they are burning hot as they emit very little light. You can confirm this by touching them after they have been on for 20 minutes or so.