Laser Users... now hear this: Possible trial of pre-shower topical and pre-lasering topical!

[OverMachoGrande]

I'm purposefully not putting this is the Laser section because I don't think everyone will see it, so if you don't use lasers... see ya later, alligator! lol...

History lesson: the best thing about us laying out the protocols for the designs of our helmets/devices (gutter guard spacing, height of a bristle, conforming to the scalp, 5mW diodes vs. ones that are too strong, etc., etc., etc.) is that we all got to be more "on the same page", and we were able to assess what was the most effective way to build devices for the best results.

We've done that with some of the "usage protocols" as well, and now we know that there is an immense benefit to taking a shower before treatments (as well as most people staying the hell away from minox, but that's another story).

Well, as you know, I've been using a pre-SHOWER topical since even before starting laser therapy one year and eight months ago, and I've been playing with some various for pre-LASERING topicals. I already know that the pre-SHOWER topical makes a huge difference in the amount of D.O.M.S. soreness that I get, and I already know that the pre-LASERING topical makes a difference with the amount of head pump I get -all thing that tell me that the session is more productive, and would probably lead to long term better results.

Not everyone likes to make this stuff on their own, so I'm thinking that I might hammer down the formulas of both, make a tiny FREE trial size of just a couple of weeks worth for anyone to try, and then have people report back whether or not they "feel" the difference, or notice anything at all.

The pre-shower part is pretty easy... it's just the ONE working aspect of that product that's being pushed incessantly in the forums right now, maybe coupled with one or two additives to keep the hair from overly drying. I still need to play with the pre-lasering formula a bit. I've bought organic olive oil, and am going to test that up against emu oil -something that is very "hair friendly" and does have great penetration (according to the emu oil websites, at least), but something that is EXPENSIVE and might not be worth the extra cost- and I'm going to see if it is comparable. I've also bought some other additives, such as pure lemon juice which is a PHOTO-SENSITIZER, which means that it makes you more sensitive to LLLT. Yes, that's copying Gaunitz.

Anyway, as I play with this -and I'm open to suggestions (such as niacin to flush the skin a bit for possible irradiation benefits)- I'm going to eventually NAIL a good formula, and I want lots of us to try it, so I'm going to provide that at my expense so the MASSES of us can decide whether this works or not, and we can begin to settle this once and for all.

I'd like to know if people are interested in this.

-O.M.G.

[OverMachoGrande]

FYI, of course I would spell out EXACTLY how to make this.

This is an important point though... Joe the Zix Guy feels that it should be PH balanced. I would assume clays are bases and I know things like ACV are acids, so perhaps I should consider that in the formulation. I think I'll get some PH strips and test that.

Does everyone agree that being PH neutral is something that's probably pretty important, or should it be slighly "basic" or "acidic". Any benefits to either one of them? Does it matter at all?

[hapyman]

Actually skin topicals should be acidic as that is what our skin is naturally.

For example Vitamin C topicals are more effective i.e. better adsorption at pH level of about 5 or 4.

I like the idea though of many people trying out the same topical pre-LLLT though.

[Jacob]

Marula oil..or Argan oil.

[jksl]

i'm interested, as i don't get any kind of head pump or soreness during and after my treatments.

[cuebreeze]

OVERMACHO....

Ive been experimenting the last week with pure vitmain c ascorbic acid in a little bit of water and emu oil. By the 17 minute mark it is the only time that ive wanted to remove my helmet (thats how soor it was). Vitamin c is suppose to increase derma papilla size. There is deffently something to this. Even right now im not lasering but have it on my scalp and you can feel it working 'i hope'

[OverMachoGrande]

OVERMACHO....

Ive been experimenting the last week with pure vitmain c ascorbic acid in a little bit of water and emu oil. By the 17 minute mark it is the only time that ive wanted to remove my helmet (thats how soor it was). Vitamin c is suppose to increase derma papilla size. There is deffently something to this. Even right now im not lasering but have it on my scalp and you can feel it working 'i hope'

Yeah, I saw your post on that and I considered looking into that! It might be something to throw into the bentonite clay pre-shower topical as well.

Ok, as far as the olive oil with the lemon juice, it doesn't seem like it has anywhere CLOSE to the amount of stimulation I get with emu oil and ethyl alcohol. I dare say that it BLOCKED THE ENERGY somewhat. I don't think I'm going to get a headpump at all from this. I'll know for sure in an hour or so (sometime the head pump crescendos at that time after the session). What I'm going to do is add alcohol to this same mixture the next time and see if it's possibly the alcohol vs. the emu itself. I have a feeling it's the emu, though. Dammit.... that stuff is expensive.

Anybody know the cheapest bulk source of emu around??

Also, I'm still thinking hard about adding something that mildly flushes the skin.

[Saber28]

OMG-

I would also like to sample your pre-laser concoction as I still do not get sore, or any head pump. I did get a very light head pump in the begining but now, nothing. I do nothing other than wash my scalp before I do a laser treatment.

EDIT: I do use Emu oil on my temples, and again I don't have an soreness or head pump.

[OverMachoGrande]

So, I think the olive oil/lemon juice thing was a total miss. Like I said, I didn't have alcohol in it, and it was a really heavy mix of the olive oil, but I don't feel too positive about that direction.

One thing I have to point out anyway is that this is just going to ACCENT our results. The results come from THIS:



Lots and lots and lots of diffused 5mW diodes! lol... THAT is what brings success and stops hair loss. But yeah... we need to keep trying to maximize the results, and I'll get back to the "lab" tonight. I'd love to hear more of what people think should be in these topicals.

FYI - a 9khz pulsing device may be on the horizon.

-O.M.G.

[Jacob]

Also, I'm still thinking hard about adding something that mildly flushes the skin.

Look into the ingredients of Terminal 1 ...it does that for me.

[OverMachoGrande]

Ok, I'll definitely look into something that can "powder keg" the scalp a bit like that.

I want to share my initial thoughts about the clay mixture that I made that contains ACV, tea tree oil, and bentonite clay -yes, scarily close to that other product out there.

Just the simple addition of a few drops of tea tree oil to the mixture kept that "overly drying" feeling at bay. So, that may be a "keeper". HOWEVER... the ACV has gotta go!

Flashback from 2004 or 2005... I LOVED ACV. It totally had immediate cosmetic benefits when I used it on the shower, it reduced itching, made the scalp feel better, and probably had some benefits for hair loss. But man... after using it for a year, I got so I just couldn't damn take it anymore! It gets to a point where it gets in your pores, and you just can't get rid of the smell. You become saturated with it, inside and out, and you eventually RUIN YOURSELF of it.

I used BARELY ANY ACV in the mixture I created, and I used it LAST NIGHT. So, TONIGHT, I was out building the best damn laser device in the world in the work shop, and like always, I started sweating. I could smell it! Dammit... I could smell the damn ACV coming out with my sweat -and I had a shower last night and today! lol...

Man, I hardly used any ACV in this mixture, and I know that scalpure has a enough in it to be listed FIRST as an ingredient. Yes, I'm overly sensitized to the smell now -literally, you could probably put a drop on the other side of the house and I could smell it- but the point I'm making is that ALL OF YOU will probably get that way in a long enough time period if you are exposed to it. Mark my words... in a year, people will be saying the same thing about scalpure.

So... ACV will NOT be making it into the clay! It's pretty much a trick in the first place for it to be in there, in my opinion. Yeah, it does have those benefits that I stated, but when it was in there, it felt like it was "active" on my scalp and made it feel like it was doing more compared to the mixture without it.

During tomorrow's session, I'm going to just use the clay with the tea tree oil for the pre-shower topical, and I'm going to add more lemon juice and a lot of ethyl alcohol mixed with the olive oil.

Just keeping you guys posted...

-O.M.G.

[DarkwingDuck]

oooooooo

sign me up to be a test dummy, OMG!

I get very light soreness, so I could see if your new solution increases the effect.

[OverMachoGrande]

Ok, I'm just updating the status here of the pre-SHOWER topical, which as you know is the bentonite clay (or french green clay, which will probably be extremely similar).

Man, I really think that ANYTHING YOU ADD to the clay will make it so the clay doesn't absorb as much sebum out of your scalp. I could be wrong on that, and the added oil could just make it SEEM that not drawing as much out, but I really think that for the purposes we want... just a watered down bentonite clay will do FINE, and be even better than with other ingredients.

Whether it's pure absorbtion or molecular adsorbtion... I just can't see how the addition of other ingredients -ingredients that we pretty much all have tried at some time or another with little effect- could be a BENEFIT with this clay. Yes, it can be really drying, but hey... that's what we are going for, and that's why you put on the pre-LASER topical!

Ok, about the pre-laser topical, I'm still going to play around with a few ideas, but I have a feeling I'm going to settle on the emu/ethyl and maybe add a flushing ingredient to it. I'm not sure if I'm going to put lemon juice in it, but I'll experiment with it some. I am afraid of the "bleaching" aspects of lemon juice, so I may do some research on that a bit.

-O.M.G.

[Jacob]

There are quite a few clay selling..making...info sites out there. Maybe it'd be a good idea to get some ideas from them? Might even be a forum or two out there

[Pete2]

I'm purposefully not putting this is the Laser section because I don't think everyone will see it, so if you don't use lasers... see ya later, alligator! lol...

History lesson: the best thing about us laying out the protocols for the designs of our helmets/devices (gutter guard spacing, height of a bristle, conforming to the scalp, 5mW diodes vs. ones that are too strong, etc., etc., etc.) is that we all got to be more "on the same page", and we were able to assess what was the most effective way to build devices for the best results.

We've done that with some of the "usage protocols" as well, and now we know that there is an immense benefit to taking a shower before treatments (as well as most people staying the hell away from minox, but that's another story).

Well, as you know, I've been using a pre-SHOWER topical since even before starting laser therapy one year and eight months ago, and I've been playing with some various for pre-LASERING topicals. I already know that the pre-SHOWER topical makes a huge difference in the amount of D.O.M.S. soreness that I get, and I already know that the pre-LASERING topical makes a difference with the amount of head pump I get -all thing that tell me that the session is more productive, and would probably lead to long term better results.

Not everyone likes to make this stuff on their own, so I'm thinking that I might hammer down the formulas of both, make a tiny FREE trial size of just a couple of weeks worth for anyone to try, and then have people report back whether or not they "feel" the difference, or notice anything at all.

The pre-shower part is pretty easy... it's just the ONE working aspect of that product that's being pushed incessantly in the forums right now, maybe coupled with one or two additives to keep the hair from overly drying. I still need to play with the pre-lasering formula a bit. I've bought organic olive oil, and am going to test that up against emu oil -something that is very "hair friendly" and does have great penetration (according to the emu oil websites, at least), but something that is EXPENSIVE and might not be worth the extra cost- and I'm going to see if it is comparable. I've also bought some other additives, such as pure lemon juice which is a PHOTO-SENSITIZER, which means that it makes you more sensitive to LLLT. Yes, that's copying Gaunitz.

Anyway, as I play with this -and I'm open to suggestions (such as niacin to flush the skin a bit for possible irradiation benefits)- I'm going to eventually NAIL a good formula, and I want lots of us to try it, so I'm going to provide that at my expense so the MASSES of us can decide whether this works or not, and we can begin to settle this once and for all.

I'd like to know if people are interested in this.

-O.M.G.

I think there are a number of things that will complement lasering.

Pre shampoo - Piroctone Olamine shampoo
A post lasering topical which addresses :

1) inflammtion
2) bloodflow
3) cellular health



Regards
Pete

[Pete2]

Also, I'm still thinking hard about adding something that mildly flushes the skin.

Look into the ingredients of Terminal 1 ...it does that for me.

Is the flushing uncomfortable ?




Regards
Pete

[Jacob]

Also, I'm still thinking hard about adding something that mildly flushes the skin.

Look into the ingredients of Terminal 1 ...it does that for me.

Is the flushing uncomfortable ?




Regards
Pete

Not really. The first week or so it was the most noticeable..hardly notice it these days..and at times not at all.

[cld517]

i'm interested, as i don't get any kind of head pump or soreness during and after my treatments.

same here OMG..

[rosariorose9]

And I'm interested as well. Tried a emu/alcohol mixture with no soreness. I'm certainly open to trying something new.

[jksl]

Question can we add emu oil to the modified classic zix?

emu oil + zinc sulfate + B6 (p-5-p) + ethyl alcohol + distilled water + polysorbate 80 ? (can we add MSM to this?)