Life treatment or intermittent?

[Armando]

Dear Friends;

As we all of us know the scalp hair has a hair cycle, in which there is the anagen or growth phase and the catagen/telogen or loss phase. In every stage there are different concentrations and different substances which act on them, then I wonder, would it be positive to act only in the growth phase? For example, if we use Propecia, it is possible to have an early shedding of the hair as a sign that follicles are coming out of dormancy, then if we use this product constantly, we will be always losing the hairs in the last phase before time (shortening the cycle).
My point of view about this is that it would be more interesting to act temporary with growing agents in order to stop using them later, so that the hair is regulated itself (due to the high complexity of the hair cycle).
In common baldness the problem is that when hair is lost, a new hair is not born, i.e. the cycle is stopped at the growth phase. Then if we only use products that act on the phase of growth, what we are really doing is to stop the cycle in the loss phase. I think these are two similar processes, which do not lead to anything positive in our hair.

What is your opinion?

Armando

[HairLossFight.com]

Hello Armando and welcome,

You pose an interesting question. From my understanding, regardless of the hair cycle phase that you are in, you still need to use the current approved treatments (minoxidil and finasteride) otherwise their effectiveness will either be eliminated or diminished. At least in the case of finasteride (propecia/poscar) the effect on the hair follicles occurs by a relatively prolonged period of time where less DHT is exposed to them. It is not a 'growth' agent in the sense that Minoxidil is.

However, I am not 100% sure about this, and will do some more research to give you a better answer. I will also ask your question from some doctors specializing in hair loss and get back to you.

Sam,
Morphollica.com Admin

[Armando]

Sam;
Thanks for your reply and interest in asking some specialyzed hair loss doctor. This question is in my opinion rather important, since it could be the explanation of the continous cycles of regroth and shedding observed with many patients when they use minoxidil as well as propecia.
I look forward for your comments.

Armando

[HairLossFight.com]

Armando, I have asked your question from two prominent hair loss doctors. They are usually responsive. I will post their replies when I receive them.

Regards,
Sam

[HairLossFight.com]

The following is Dr. Lee's response to your question. Dr. Lee is one of the most informed and professional doctors dealing with hair loss. His website is http://www.Minoxidil.com. I extend my thanks to Dr. Lee for taking the time to answer this question:

Answer from Dr. Lee:

Im not sure I completely understand your question. As I interpret it, you are asking if it could be more beneficial to treat the hair follicles during all the phases of the hair growth cycle rather than only during anagen, the growth phase. If that were indeed your question, the answer would be yes.

First, I need to clarify some misconceptions in your question. It is not true that when a hair is shed, a new hair is not born. With the progression of MPB, the next generation of hair might be miniaturized, but the hair growth cycle remains intact. For reliable information about hair growth and MPB (male pattern baldness), access the article at http://www.morphollica.com/research/and ... opecia.php

Although there is no growth during the regressive and resting phases, there are biochemical processes that take place during catagen and telogen. The graying of hair is proof that processes taking place during catagen and/or anagen can and do affect the next generation of hair. In most hairs, the degree of pigmentation is uniform along the hair shaft. This implies that the graying process takes place at some stage in the interval between successive anagen phases.

Another example of biochemical activity during the telogen phase would be the ability of recently isolated and identified molecules, which have the ability to switch hair follicles from their telogen to their anagen phases.
Hopefully, these drugs will soon become useful in the treatment of MPB.

[Armando]

Dear Sam,

I would like to thank you and Dr. Lee for the interest you have shown in answering my question about the suitability or non-suitability of long-life treatments to beat common baldness.

As per Dr. Lee it would be more beneficial to treat baldness in all and every stage involved in the hair cycle. It seems something obvious, but it is not that easy to take it to practice. At each stage there is a different biochemical regulation, and it could happen that the presence of a certain substance or mediator were essential for a healthy hair, but at the time of going into the next stage that same presence could be negative. Then, how should action be taken? Favouring a certain phase of the hair cycle at the expense of the detriment of the following one?

It is very interesting indeed the reflection about grey hair made by Dr. Lee. The degree of pigmentation of any grey hair is uniform, the hair is born and grows with a pigmentation which is predetermined and different from the pigmentation of the hair that it will replace. Thus, it is easy to suppose that the order (or biologic mechanism) has started working at the previous stage. This means that the genetic expression of hair can change from one cycle to the next one, that is in one only step. This, thats true, does not happen in the case of the development of common baldness, since till the complete loss of the possibility of regenerating a new hair, there are stages with miniaturized hairs. Therefore I should have added: in common baldness the problem is that, when hair is lost, a new hair is not born IN GOOD CONDITIONS.

Anyway my approach could be summed up saying that treatments for life to treat baldness do not have much sense, due to the fact that maybe by acting indiscriminately over all the hairs as a whole, these must lose the exceptional quality that human hair has, that is the asynchronity. The asynchronity is the characteristic that makes possible to substitute our hairs without modifying our appearance (each hair is autonomous of its neighbour). It could be said that we make the sheddings as the rest of mammals do, but in us it is imperceptible. With the use of certain drugs that favour a certain phase of the hair cycle, probably this peculiarity will be lost. Therefore it is logical to think that the successive cycles of shedding and regrowth observed under certain circumstances are due to the continuous use of these drugs, due to the fitting together of the hair cycles.

Another highly important detail would be to find out if the duration of these cycles which are artificially induced are of more or less length than the natural cycles.

I dont know what you or Dr. Lee may think about these ideas.

[HairLossFight.com]

Hello Armando,

You definitely do ask some interesting questions.

You said:

... At each stage there is a different biochemical regulation, and it could happen that the presence of a certain substance or mediator were essential for a healthy hair, but at the time of going into the next stage that same presence could be negative .... Then, how should action be taken? Favouring a certain phase of the hair cycle at the expense of the detriment of the following one?

It may well be true that this is the case, that at each stage of the hair cycle different biochemical regulation mechanisms are occuring. It may also be true that using the same substances for treatment (such as Minoxidil or Finasteride) could have different effects depending on the stage of the hair cycle. However, this does not mean that the cumulative effect of using the treatments over successive or repeated cycles of hair growth and loss will not be positive overall. That is, given enough time (at least 6 months to a year or more to allow for several cycles of the hair growth and loss process) the cumulative effect of the drugs may be positive -- that is, a fuller head of hair than at baseline. This has in fact been proven to be the case. Minxodil and Finasteride have both been shown to work, to a degree, for some men. However, what you are saying may indeed have merit, and may in part be responsible for the periodic sheds that so many people experience when they start these drugs, as it seems you have pointed out.

Your point about asynchonity (I'm not sure if this is an actual word or not but I know what you mean) is a good one. Perhaps it is true that by using treatments like Minoxidil or Propecia, we are causing the cycles of loss and regrowth for the individual hairs to synchronize more than what is normal. I think that is what you are saying. But I also believe that the studies have shown that even if this is the case, the end result is more hair in growth phase overall (after an appropriate period of treatment) than if the drugs were not used. So perhaps the anagen phases are being prolonged while the catagen phases are being reduced in duration. Even if the cycles are more synchronized while using the treatments, this would hopefully translate into a desireable effect overall. Obviously if all the hairs go into resting phase at the same time due to using the treatments that would be a bad thing. I haven't heard or read anywhere of such an effect.

Regards,
Sam

[hotdillon]

Maybe what Armando is saying is why I am losing so much hair. I hope Dr. Lee and Sam are right. I am going to keep using propeica and minoxidil for 6 months like Sam suggested. I am interested in Dr. Lee's products now too.

[hotdillon]

Hi everyone. I'm not sure I understand everything that Armando and Sam have said, but I can tell you that I have been using regular Minoxidil and Proscar cut up into quarters for a year now and they definitely work for me. I haven't regrown any hair along my hair line, but my crown area has filled in enough to not be so obvious anymore. At the beginning of my treatment I used to have the dreaded "sheds" but then I stopped paying attention after a while and I have had pretty good results. The sheds don't seem to be as bad anymore either.

[hotdillon]

Magneto contrgatulations on your results! Did you have any side-effect from the proscar?

[hotdillon]

It's hard to say whether I had any side-effects really. I think I may have had the ever so tiniest decrease in libido, but that may just be paranoia on my part because everything is functioning A-okay.